“ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by Steve Wooler » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:58 pm

Hi Bob

Hand duly slapped. Sorry, but you did say the 'resort' at Arnos Vale where the attack took place. By no stretch of the imagination could Top O' Tobago be called a resort - lovely as the place is. In truth, the term would be totally stretching it for the Arnos Vale Hotel. So, my humble apologies. :(
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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by RobertE » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:30 pm

Apologies gratefully accepted, :-) and I think you do a tremendous job with this Travel site/ forum and your work on Tobago. The people,authorities on Tobago (imho) dont seem to understand or appreciate the beneficial, financial impact you and your efforts have for their Island. That has to be recognized.
I will be much more strict about how I use the term ...Resort ... Point noted :-)

Bob

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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by Glyn Kirpalani » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:20 am

This is why the Tobago House of Assembly cannot afford to hire new police officers - the Chief Secretary Mr London has just awarded his cousin, also Mr London, a cushy retirement consultancy "job", paying his family member the equivalent of 10 police officer's salaries: http://www.thetobagonews.com/news/60000 ... 41511.html

Until the nepotism and corruption amongst the Politrickians is ended (and there are no active anti-corruption movements at the present time of any effectiveness) then we cannot expect there to be any spare cash or political will to help solve crime, for the enjoyment of a better quality of life for locals, let alone visitors to Tobago.

Watching the death of the tourism industry on the island is like watching a long slow car crash. Very sad

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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by Paul Tallet » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:14 pm

Hi Bob

Erm ... just to clarify where I was coming from ... Top o Tobago is not in or next to the Arnos Vale resort ... it is up a hill away from the resort. The victim says 'off Arnos Vale Beach' which is a good trek away from Top o Tobago.

It's like if I stay in the Naturalist Beach Resort in Castara (or any of the guesthouses for that matter) and I go for a bimble down the beach and get garrotted by a thug, I wouldn't blame it on my host at the Naturalist ... I take enough insults off the local fishermen as it is anyway :roll: !!

On the other hand ... if I was attacked on the premises of the Naturalist then I would have an issue to settle with them about my security.

So all I was saying was that I sympathised with the Top o Tobago hosts because I don't see how they can be responsible for visitors away from their premises, even though they clearly do FEEL responsible and that is a credit to them.

I hope you understand.

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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by Glyn Kirpalani » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:23 pm

Paul, it seems I was wrong, and guns have been used in aggravated robberies/villa invasions:

http://tambrintobago.com/?p=509

On the one hand I am mad as hell with the continued spiral into the abyss, but I also get really hacked off when folks stay in inadequately guarded villas, contrary to all sensible and governmental advice. If everybody stuck to their first world governments' travel safety advice to Tobago, there would be very few villa invasions, few physical assaults and no fishing rods stolen (Tobago is simply not the idyll it once was, folks need to wake up and enjoy it for what it is, in busy resorts and using guided/group services only, just as one would do in many developing nations of the world):

Tobago
Most visits to Tobago are trouble free, but tourists (including British nationals) have been robbed. The inability of the authorities to catch and prosecute offenders remains a concern.

You should maintain at least the same level of security awareness as you would in the UK and make sure your living accommodation is secure. Don’t carry large amounts of cash or wear eye-catching jewellery. Use a hotel safe to store valuables, money and passports. Petty theft from cars is common.

Villas, particularly those in isolated areas, should have adequate security, including external security lighting, grilles and overnight security guards.

Don’t walk alone in deserted areas even in daylight. This includes beaches like Englishman's Bay and King Peter's bay unless you are in an organised group. Consult your tour operator if in doubt.

Be vigilant at all times and carry a mobile phone with roaming capability for use in emergency.

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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by Paul Tallet » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:28 pm

Glyn

I will be staying in Castara where I am used to leaving the windows open at night so I can hear and smell the sea in my sleep.

I will not be doing that this time.

I have spoken to my group about the recent incidents and discussed the possibility that we may need to be more careful than normal.

Apparently it is legal to transport pepper spray in your luggage but not tasers.

So I am going to ship some tasers to my destination and take some pepper spray out there ... I think it is the least I can do. Everyone in my group will not be wearing jewellery, we will all look shabby and plead poverty at all times.

When reading the site mentioned there was talk about 3 ipods etc etc being stolen ... although it is unacceptable for people to be robbed I think that we all have a duty of care to ourselves to not flaunt our apparent wealth to certain parts of the society in Tobago.

And I guess that can apply to many other places in the world.

I fell so sad about what is happening to Tobago.

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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by RobertE » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:01 am

Paul Tallet wrote:Hi Bob

Erm ... just to clarify where I was coming from ... Top o Tobago is not in or next to the Arnos Vale resort ... it is up a hill away from the resort. The victim says 'off Arnos Vale Beach' which is a good trek away from Top o Tobago.

So all I was saying was that I sympathised with the Top o Tobago hosts because I don't see how they can be responsible for visitors away from their premises, even though they clearly do FEEL responsible and that is a credit to them.

I hope you understand.

Regards
Erm.... Paul.....you havent clarified anything.... other than repeat your reply to Camille Baker (with more elaboration) on Guests being responsible for their own safety once they leave the grounds of their hosts.

The couple involved in this attack did not say they blame the Top O Tobago Villas for the attack....or left immediately because of implied blame.
I pointed out reasons why they would/should leave.... fully justified in my view.... and still totally disagree with your position.

I guess i dont understand :)

Top O Tobago is a victim of this attack as well, that I do understand.

Bob

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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by Glyn Kirpalani » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:18 am

Paul - I am chuckling away (through my weeping at the general awfulness of all this) at your posts. Some of these lowlifes really could use a damn good taser-ing, with your finger accidentally stuck on the trigger.

Rob: if I were you I would be ensuring that you enjoy a happy and safe holiday to Tobago, by using what you now know to minimise risk to "canadian" levels of routine crime-risk - eg check with Camille to see what burglar bars/alarms/safes/fencing/canine or human security they have.

If all of the resort's security arrangements meet with the recommended safe levels, then all you have to do is travel around safely - for instance, do not use the rural pathway to the beach unless escorted by a local or security. Drive about safely in a locked rental car - diesel fuel is cheaper than bottled water on Tobago and you can haggle really low rates these days. Visit waterfalls, rainforests, stunning undeveloped beaches etc in groups or on organiused tours with guides - these will not be the kind of organised mass-tours you may encounter in parts of the world, eg with hundreds of tourists all descending off buses at once. Much smaller and more sedate - eg use Yes tourism, Harris Macdonald Jungle Tours etc. They are not expensive and you will be more relaxed with expert local guiding, plus the lowlifes will stay well away.

We need to mount a "Tobago can be enjoyed safely using common sense" campaign to stop people becoming easy victims of crime - which would also force resort owners to raise their standards and to improve guest security - if they cannot afford to spend on grilles, fencing, guards etc, they ought to get out of the game. My wife and I learned this the hard way and by the time we sold our micro-resort in 2009, it was the best protected eco-resort on the island, with 3 dogs, razor-wire, armed-response security panic alarm system, motion sensor lighting, remote controlled electric gate etc. By doing all this, we enjoyed 3 years of no crime at all there, compared with approximately 5 burglaries/robberies in 4 years of owning oue prior, largely unprotected property.

Be safe and enjoy Tobago - behave as you would in Rio or Miami or Thailand and you would be ok.

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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by Paul Tallet » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:44 am

Exactly Bob ! :mrgreen:

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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by Paul Tallet » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:54 am

Cor, Glyn ... this looks a beauty ... I got a tingle just watching the video :mrgreen:


http://www.smartstun.com/Barracuda-BC-3 ... p_107.html


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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by Glyn Kirpalani » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:19 am

LOL, the secret would be to get close to the assailant (being body to body renders a cutlass useless, unlike a knife) then zap em in the gonads with that 3.7 million volts. You might even get faster waitress service on Castara beach by zapping this around (although we must not expect miracles).

Seriously though, as you well know Tobago's south-west is very different from Castara village, where most of the villagers watch out for bad guys and keep an eye on the visitors, valuing their income. Even though it is therefore much safer there, you would be sensible to close the windows and doors and use a fan at night. If anyone does break in, you can use the classic Pacino line from Scarface and say "Say hello to my little friend" before zapping their scrunter ass back out of the window.

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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by Ronald » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:16 am

In Sweden private persons are not allowed to use pepper spray, I don´t know if T&T has a similar law (most likely not) but there´s also a "more friendy" spray called skunk-spray.
That spray has a kind of chemical that make you feel sick (skunk-spray) which make it impossible for the person to go on attaccing you, and also contents a red colour!
That colour isn´t dangerous, but it will last for a few days even if they wash themself, and if they get it into their hair, easily pin-pointed!

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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by Glyn Kirpalani » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:24 pm

Hi Ronald, that sounds revolting! (Which is the idea I guess). I know that an ordinary bottle of Hot Pepper Sauce from Penny Savers, squirted into an assailant's eyes, would have an agonising paralysing effect also, and one could never be prosecuted for carrying it around. Not sure how one would best squirt it however, but I am sure Paul "Bronson" Tallet will think of some method :)

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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by Karambesi » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:26 pm

Sad as it is to read about it.
It belongs to my standard when traveling, carry pepper spray, regardless of whether allowed or not. Of course, not in your hand luggage to the air! Should I use it, is indeed danger. Then I can not take considerate to allow or not. When you go back home, I leave the spray. The cost is not high, but in my head - I have anything against defenses.
The type of pepper spray is MK, it's the same, what has our police. It is certain, in application, the opponent can not breathe and is Incapacitating.
Please excuse my English.

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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by Paul Tallet » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:10 pm

Yeah ... I am ordering 4 units of that skunk spray (thanks Ronald) ... 3 for the rooms and one for the car ... it will give the girls a licence to have handbags to carry the secret weapon and then they can bosh the thugs with the handbags afterwards.

Because the tasers are illegal in the UK I am thinking of shipping one to Tobago ... I think a taser would be a bonus ... once the thug has had his vomit spray I think a short sharp bolt around the genitalia would do the world of good and render him completely helpless.

Then I could arrest the thug ... can you do citizens arrest in Tobago? I think that if you have a thug and his machete covered in dye with sore bollocks plus several witnesses and camcorder coverage then, surely, the Police may press charges? Or am I going too far?

That's the cunning plan ... bish - bash - bosh ... sorted ... smile.

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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by RobertE » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:57 am

Paul Tallet wrote: Yeah ...
Because the tasers are illegal in the UK I am thinking of shipping one to Tobago ... I think a taser would be a bonus ... once the thug has had his vomit spray I think a short sharp bolt around the genitalia would do the world of good and render him completely helpless.

That's the cunning plan ... bish - bash - bosh ... sorted ... smile.

Regards
GO AHEAD! ..... MAKE MY DAY!....... right Paul ? :mrgreen:

Payback would be sweet........
Glyn Kirpalani wrote:
Rob: if I were you I would be ensuring that you enjoy a happy and safe holiday to Tobago, by using what you now know to minimise risk to "canadian" levels of routine crime-risk - eg check with Camille to see what burglar bars/alarms/safes/fencing/canine or human security they have.

If all of the resort's security arrangements meet with the recommended safe levels, then all you have to do is travel around safely - for instance, do not use the rural pathway to the beach unless escorted by a local or security. Drive about safely in a locked rental car - diesel fuel is cheaper than bottled water on Tobago and you can haggle really low rates these days. Visit waterfalls, rainforests, stunning undeveloped beaches etc in groups or on organiused tours with guides - these will not be the kind of organised mass-tours you may encounter in parts of the world, eg with hundreds of tourists all descending off buses at once. Much smaller and more sedate - eg use Yes tourism, Harris Macdonald Jungle Tours etc. They are not expensive and you will be more relaxed with expert local guiding, plus the lowlifes will stay well away.

We need to mount a "Tobago can be enjoyed safely using common sense" campaign to stop people becoming easy victims of crime - which would also force resort owners to raise their standards and to improve guest security - if they cannot afford to spend on grilles, fencing, guards etc, they ought to get out of the game. My wife and I learned this the hard way and by the time we sold our micro-resort in 2009, it was the best protected eco-resort on the island, with 3 dogs, razor-wire, armed-response security panic alarm system, motion sensor lighting, remote controlled electric gate etc. By doing all this, we enjoyed 3 years of no crime at all there, compared with approximately 5 burglaries/robberies in 4 years of owning oue prior, largely unprotected property.

Be safe and enjoy Tobago - behave as you would in Rio or Miami or Thailand and you would be ok.
:o

Thanks Glyn,

We will be very alert and I'm sure our hosts at Top O Tobago will be up to speed on ensuring our safety while we are on their property. I have spoken to the mgmt of our other portion of stay near Pigeon Point and have the same feeling there as well.
We will have a great trip and I will report our experience when we get back.

and ...... while we are there I will be Packin.... "things".. (Paul Tallet mode.... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: )

Bob

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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by Glyn Kirpalani » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:50 am

I am loving all this talk of revenge and retribution, of our man Scarface Tallet teaching these ne're do wells a lesson they will not forget in a hurry!

Funnily enough when unguarded villas invasions first reared their ugly head (publicly) in the mid noughties, at the same time the T&T police force recruited a dozen or so retired British Scotland Yard detectives to try to help them fight gang crime in Trinidad. I wrote to the chief of police with a detailed plan to use these officers and their wives as "bait" by ostentatiously housing them in an unguarded villa, with loud liming around the pool every night, plus some armed local officers from their crack squad, hidden inside. Provided their status could have been kept secret from the gardeners and housekeepers etc, the local bad boys would surely have staged a raid, and equally surely they would have been shot dead, and medals passed around to all concerned. Bizarrely, the chief of police telephoned me to chat about my plan, but I did not recognise his name as his accent was very heavy and it sounded like he had been drinking, so he got the hump and hang up on me and would not return my subsequent calls.

Oh I could bore you all for hours with my amateur attempts to fight crime in Tobago, all failed, but now I can fight this war from a safe distance by proxy, using Paul's crack squad of hard as nails Yorkshire folk as bait :)

PS: I am pretty sure tasers would be illegal, classed as offensive weapons in T&T, but then again I know you are only kidding. And the right of citizens arrest using reasonable force is legal there and usually applauded - just make sure you do not skunk spray then taser then pin down a 75 year old Granny on her way back from Church on a sunday, who said good morning to you in a loud and threatening manner

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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by Paul Tallet » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:30 pm

Glyn ... I always pride myself on turning negatives into positives ... the war has just begun ... it's time for tourists to show their mettle and cut a swathe of stench and electrocution through these thugs and bring harmony back to Tobago :wink:

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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by Steve Wooler » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:31 pm

I have been out of operation for three days (one days with all Internet in Castara down, then 2 days down with a crashed computer) and confess I am somewhat horrified at the tone this thread has taken.

As much as I can appreciate everyone's frustration with the situation, this sort of talk is not helping anyone. My thanks to the reader who also sent me the following.
According to According to Section 2 of the Firearms Act 1970, a "prohibited weapon" includes "any weapon of whatever description or design which is adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas or other thing." Which includes Pepper Spray (see also - http://www.newsday.co.tt/crime_and_court/0,150839.html).
So, folks, I don't like to restrict usage of the forum or tell people what they can and can't say - but please just cool it!
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Re: “ Attacked and Robbed off of Arnos Vale Beach ”

Post by Katy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:51 pm

I've been reading this thread with interest. I've lived in Tobago for the last three years and so far - touch wood - nothing has EVER happened to me (in fact more troubling things happened to me in my own home town which was pretty small). I am sensible about where I walk on my own, how I get home after dark, don't go to isolated areas on my own and lock my door at night (just like I used to do when I lived in a very rural part of the UK).
Tobago is just the same as any other Caribbean island or indeed anywhere else in the world. The incident which happened is extremely troubling and I acknowledge that this incident, and a lot of these incidents described in this forum, happened during the day and not in especially remote areas. It is unacceptable. But when it comes to comments on this forum everything needs to be put into perspective.
Tobago suffers a lot of negative press as often crime statistics are linked with Trinidad. We are a separate island.
There is a perception that it is dangerous but I really don't feel this is the case. I live here and can tell you that I've never felt unsafe here.
I am not refering to any incidents in this forum, but quite often people come away on holiday and don't take sensible precautions - they see the sun, sand and sea and think that its ok to leave stuff on the beach to swim or invite complete strangers back to their room, or do business with people who hustle you from a street corner.
My parents come here on holiday twice a year and regularly go out on their own and indeed they do go to Arnos Vale. Again - touch wood - nothing has ever happened to them and again they are sensible such as leaving valuables at home, locking their hire car etc.
I know that the police here have a long way to go when it comes to finding those responsible for crime here (especially in victim support). Some of you may not know but CCTV cameras have been installed in a lot of the "tourist" areas here which are monitored 24/7. There are also regular patrols by police offices on bikes throughout the year. Tourism officials on the island do regularly meet with the police here to discuss issues affecting tourists.
I don't like comparing crime stats island on island - it is hard to do as different police forces record their stats in different ways, you have a different population etc. We don't often hear about crime in Barbados in the media (one of the most popular Caribbean destinations - in fact they have not seen the decline in tourist numbers unlike other islands) but have a look at their crime stats http://www.barbadospolice.gov.bb/commun ... =3&item=53
(I know I will get criticism now for posting this after saying I don't like comparing island to island but...)
Tobago has NO WHERE NEAR AS MANY INCIDENTS.
Just my thoughts
Best wishes and do come and visit Tobago (BTW I DON"T own a tourism related business here). It is a beautiful, unspoilt island and has much to offer.
As I say it is all down to perspective

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