German national killed on Tobago

[Cindy B]

Well, after spending five days on Tobago and two days in Port of Spain, have to say never felt remotely threatened in either place. That's not to say there's no problem of course, but in our limited experience there was no issue at all. Everyone was really friendly and even the vendors were not that much of a problem and backed off once we declined interest.

Such a shame the rep Tobago is getting, it really doesn't seem to be deserved.

Yeah, we we went to Trinidad and Tobago, for 4 days at each island, after reading this site for many weeks beforehand, I was shuddering at the thought we had made a major mistake!
We speant 2 says in Manzanilla, 2 days in Chaquanas, and 4 nights in Crown point Tobaga, . I day was spent ( Tuesday) at carnival all day, and not once were we scared, felt insecure or anything.
In fact, eveyone we met, in Trini or Tobago where very pleasant and warm. We explored everywhere we could without problems.
So, I guess this is the same as anywhere in the world, you go there, be smart and polite, respect the country and all should be well, but there are moronds everwhere, no matter d' country!!
My family and I will be returning to Tobago next year..................

[Wanda F]

I am new on this forum and we have plans to be in Tobago in December. Being new and wanting to learn all I can about Tobago I frequently look at this forum. I first look to see the most recent posts. In doing so yesterday I came across this subject for the first time. I read all the posts and also went back and read all the posts in regard to the Swedish couple's murder back in Oct 2008. To be perfectly honest I am still in shock. If it had only been the two murder cases I would just feel that crime happens everywhere. But in reading all the comments (I know a lot of comments are just opinions) I have become quite disturbed. So much so that I am considering changing our travel plans. What most concerned me was that it seems that burglaries and assaults on tourists especially in villas is quite common. It also appears that they are getting worse not necessarily in number but in severity. The villas we have been considering have security systems but I don't want to spend my vacation watching my back. Please tell me if these comments about the situation of crimes in villas against tourists is accurate.

From what I had read previously I had an image in my mind of Tobago of being a very laid back, peaceful, friendly island. Walking down to the beach, chatting with the friendly Tobagoians, helping pull in the fishing nets. I got it that you need to be careful, not going on hikes in the rainforest alone or even without the guides, not going to the wrong places at night, watching out for the family on Englishman's Bay, all of which just was par for the course as far as I was concerned. Now my image is suddently totally different. I do not doubt even now that the people of Tobago are very friendly and hospitable. I feel sure they are alarmed and disturbed greatly over what is going on in Tobago. But if these reports are accurate it does not change the fact that Tobago may be a dangerous place for tourists at this time. My heart is broken for the people of Tobago and for those that want to visit their beautiful island.

One villa we are looking at is very near Stonehaven Bay, Grafton Beach near Pleasant Prospect. It is one of the Westbury Villas. The other is Kapinjala on the Arnos Vale Estates near Plymouth. From both of them you can walk to the beach but would you dare? Are these areas ones that have been targeted previously? Could you lay on the beach without looking around every few minutes? Would you walk down the beach to the Seahorse Inn and walk back in the dark as is suggested by the website? Please if you know the real scoop of what the situation is on Tobago I need your input.

Wanda

[Brian Taylor]

maybe you should ask you last part of the question again in the accommodation forum where it is more likely that someone stumbles about it who has actually spend time in those villas...also check the forum of those villas, guess people mention if they felt safe or not...
still living in tobago and still more scared in berlin wehre I come from (where murders already don't reach the press anymore or just as small notes because too many are happening)
hope you change your mind about changing your mind and have a great time in tobago!
steph

[Lisa Keith]

Hi Wanda,

Steph is absolutely right. I still feel safer here than 'home' (which was a semi rural part of the UK). I frequently read my old local newspaper, and on a daily basis there, they have more problems than happen here, by far. I know the Westbury Villas, and I'm fairly sure they don't have a history of problems. The walk from the villas to the beach is a 2 minute one or less, and you would, quite simply, have to be very unlucky to suffer any misfortune. Whilst, obviously, you can never say 'never', the huge majority of visitors to Tobago will leave with nothing but good memories and a desire to return at the earliest opportunity. This website is living proof of that! I can't guarantee that you won't have any worries while you're here, but I CAN guarantee that the vast percentage of people who visit the island will tell you that they never felt a single moments' threat or worry during their holiday. It sounds like you've done your homework already and know the areas to avoid and things that you should and shouldn't do.

Lisa.

[David Watkins]

Hi Wanda,I live in a small Cornish holiday town and have been going to Tobago for a number of years.I feel safer in Tobago than I do in my home town in summer
I have never come across anything other than a welcome smile on Tobago.
David back in six months

[Ronald]

Hi Wanda
I live just outside the city of Stockholm and I´m agree with David, feeling more secure in Tobago compared walking downtown Stockholm by night.
Myself stay by friends I know in Bon Accord, the Crown Point area, and I walk around alone during daytime in the country side.

Kapinjala has got many good reviews, but from there you only have Arnos Vale Beach as long we are talking about walking distance. That beach is well known as a good place for watching the reef, fishes and so on, but the beach itself has quite much stones nearby the beach.
Stonehevaen Bay is a completely different beach, it´s wide, long and some of the beach has areas with nearly black sand. Not may peoples at all on the beach, as mostly visitors at the hotels there seems to prefer their pool. The nearby hotel has a beach bar too. With car you also has a short trip to other beaches closer to Crown Point ot higher up on the Carribean side.

Tobago is still safe compared with many other tourist destinations, both in Carribean and Europe. Bad things do happens in Tobago too, but not on a regulary basis. Check other news here on this website and ask questions, you will have as much answers you can get.

Ronald, been travelling alone to the Caribbean since 1987.

[Manfred]

Wanda,

We're off to Tobago this week for our 9th stay. We live in a "safe" part of London and certainly feel at least as safe in Tobago as we do at home. We stay in a villa in the Mt. Irvine area and treat security issues the same as we would here.

Our take on these few incidents is that the fact that they are reported and discussed so prominently testifies to their rarity. Tobago is a friendly safe destination which is a big part of why we keep going back.

Manfred.

[Steve Wooler]

Hi Wanda

This website is NOT a marketing tool of the Tobago tourism department - in fact we have absolutely no connection with any official tourism-related body or organisation on Tobago. As I say on the Home page - 'Our goal is to "lift the lid" on Tobago as a holiday destination'.

Consequently you have to accept the rough with the smooth. We are NOT going to just tell you how beautiful the island is and lull you into a false sense of security. The truth is that a huge amount of incidents against tourists are a direct result of just that; people becoming TOO relaxed by the friendly ambience of the island and then behaving in stupid ways that invite trouble. You will get the honest bottom line here - not just marketing hype. Take all the information you read hear at face value, behave sensibly and observe all the normal common sense precautions that you would at home or anywhere else, and you will have a wonderful holiday and return many times.

I know the properties you mentioned extremely well. I wouldn't have the slightest concern.

[Paul Tallet]

Well put Steve.

If there is an issue about staying in villas in Tobago there has to be the same issue with villas anywhere else in the world.

Prospective visitors need to look at the bigger picture and decide if Tobago is safer than anywhere else. It may not be ... but it will probably be one of the safest ... not sure if there is any data to prove this but I am sure Tobago should come into the top 10% of the world's safest destinations.

Regards

[Andy K]

I take your point, Paul, but one can't deny that 4 murders and a substantial number or robberies, muggings and assaults have taken place within 500m or so of that location - since The Shade opened and no problems at all before. We have all seen the low-life that hang around outside the nightclub during the late evenings and I think it fairly safe to assume that many of the druggies consider the area and tourists 'easy pickings'. Sure, the club seems to be doing a fair bit to control access, but I'm not sure they can be held totally responsible for the patrons they attract, much less those hanging about outside to pick on the drunken stupid tourists who stagger out in the wee hours. To me, it is the ONLY no-go area in Tobago (well, assuming one takes care leaving Sunday School late at night).

Anyway, aspects of the case now indicate that we could be looking at a case of white-on-white crime passional.

Steve,

reading this statement, i am a bit sad about your conclusions.
Unfortunately there is a coincidence between the raise in crime and the time since the Shade opened
their doors. But these few years were also the years of the upsurge in crime in the entire country !
It is not a secret that even in Tobago there are street gangs, of course not hundreds like in Trini, but a few, and definately some in the Bon Accord area. A night club with hundreds, if not thousands of visitors per night naturally attracts criminal activity by those individuals. The only solution would be, not to have night clubs / discotheks at all, but do we really want to eliminate the night life completely and
leave the streets to the criminals in the night ? I don't think that would be a good thing to do.

I have been visiting the Shade on numerous occasions without ever being attacked,
mostly following my personal security procedure:
Go to the club BEFORE the big crowd arrives, say by 11pm.
Make sure you get a park for your vehicle as close as possible to the exit.
Leave the club by 3 am for the latest, before everybody is intoxicated and those, who "cya' take de liquor", get aggressive.
Behave like you want your own children to behave.

Since quite some time i see a reasonable contingent of police officers around the Shade ensuring that patrons leave the club in a orderly fashion and no "bacchanal" takes place. I don't think one could ask for much more.

We need to be aware that Trinidad and Tobago, like most of the Caribbean and South America, currently goes through an aera of significant upsurge of lawlessness. I will refrain from analysing the reasons here in this thread.
Identifying the Shade as a part of the problem is, in my opinion, the wrong approach.

Greetings from Trinidad,

Andy

[JerryT]

TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO is now the most violent country in the English speaking Caribbean
Trinidad and Tobago Express, 18.03.09
------
TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO has overtaken Jamaica as the most violent country in the English speaking Caribbean, based on comparative murder rates with that island. And based on the murder figures for both islands for the first month of 2009, this country is getting worse while Jamaica has seen a drop in homicides compared with January 2008.

Jamaica has, over the last decade, been one of the most homicidal nations in the world, consistently ranking in the top three countries with the highest per capita murder rate. In both islands, gang violence remains the one of law enforcement's biggest problems, with gangland murders pushing the annual toll to record highs. More people have been murdered in gang violence in Trinidad and Tobago than in Jamaica in 2007 and 2008, with our Caribbean neighbour actually seeing a decrease in gang-related violence last year. In 2008, Jamaica saw an almost six per cent drop in the number of gang-related murders compared with the year before, while this country saw an increase of almost one per cent.

What is even more staggering is that while Jamaica's murder rate grew by less than two per cent in 2008 compared to the year before, TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO'S CLIMBED BY OVER 38 PER CENT (emphasis added). Murder by murder, Trinidad and Tobago's reputation as a crime and homicide haven is gaining more notoriety than that of Jamaica, with the major North American and European countries warning visitors to T&T about murder and gang violence. A report issued by the United States State Department on Friday spoke of this country's worsening gang problem. The forecast for the year ahead remains grim.

[David Watkins]

Unfortunately Tobago is lumped with Trinidad,and so gains an undeserved reputation.It is rather like saying that Bude (pop 18,000) because of the increase in stabbings in the metropolitan areas of the UK,is unsafe.
Let's not scare-monger but stay realistic.In the last ten years Tobago has averaged less than 1 murder per year,the greater majority being "family" affairs,this year the headline of this thread was a white on white murder,hardly gang related,eh?
So lets just keep our feet on the ground here.
David

[Ronald]

I´m agree with David, just reading about the number of crime-related deaths in T&T isn´t enough. One have to consider who´s affected and the reason for it.
The majority of all visitors into both Trinidad and Tobago aren´t affected. Not even in Trinidad, as the majority of all murders there are between gangs and/or members of gangs, and between families.
Sure one can easily get into troubles both in Trinidad, as well Tobago in lesser degree, if one shows gold, a lot of money in front of wrong peoples or into wrong areas, and forget to use normlly common sence, but that can happen into any country.
Ronald

[Steve Wooler]

Jerry

You are being very unfair to Tobago quoting figures like that. Trinidad and Tobago may be sister islands in a twin-island Republic, but ethnically, culturally and economically they are hugely different. Remember, even physically they are the same distance from each other as England and France.

I find it hard to fault the view that Trinidad is rapidly becoming the most corrupt and lawless society in the Caribbean. I admit that there is no way that I would personally visit Trinidad now. However, whilst I admit to increasing concern by the apparent lack of action by the authorities, I still believe that Tobago represents a wonderful holiday destination. It certainly retains my support for the moment.

[Guy Burrow]

Having just come back from 10 days in Trini and 4 days in Tobago, I can honestly say we didn`t encounter problems in either destination. As long as you do your research and stay within certain areas of cities and towns you will be absolutely fine. I went to the Shade nightclub last Saturday and felt it was actually more friendly than any UK nightclub, which these days you are much more likely to be involved in trouble. Walking aroung Crown Point was no issue and we didn`t get bothered by the trip touts very much. All in all a fabulous holiday all round and one I hope to replicate next time the cricket team are back in the Caribbean!

[Terry K]

I have read this whole section regarding safety in Tobago as well as looked at the government state warnings and hope you all will validate my conclusion before I have to confirm my flights on Sunday. It seems Tobago has the same safety issues as many cities of crime- the front page of my San Francisco newspaper told of 2 horrendous murders just yesterday. We have traveled to third world countries a lot and my experience tells me that if you are prudent and avoid certain neighborhoods you can be just fine. That said, I don't want to have a tour guide to take us everywhere- we like to explore on our own. I know we should avoid the falls at off peak hours and stay away from certain areas at night, but it seems we should be relatively ok otherwise. We are planning to stay at Hummingbird Heights which seems like a very safe place. I would welcome anyone's comments on this conclusion. Many thanks! Terry

[Andy K]

Terry,

as discussed earlier in this thread and otherwise, Tobago unlike Trinidad is quite reasonable in terms of crime. Normal security precautions are just fine. As long as you don't expose yourself too much as a target, you will be o.k. and i hope you will enjoy your holidays in Tobago.

Andy

[SandraK]

Terry
Confirm those flights ! You will love it ! Tobago people are wonderful if you make the effort. As said soooo many times before no more scarey than anywhere else, in fact, less so. We are off in 10 days and can't wait. Very laid back, no need to dress for dinner, well, within reason, and stunning location. Enjoy !!!!

[Hugh S]

Terry,

We are a whole lot safer anywhere in Tobago than anywhere in San Francisco.

So confirm ASAP.

We are returning to SF tomorrow.

Hugh

PS. Did you know that you can bypass Trinidad altogether on Delta? Much easier.

[Terry K]

I just confirmed our flights and am so excited - thanks to everyone for responding so quickly to my post. You all made me feel confident that my initial judgement was spot on. Sadly, I can't fly Delta as we are going to use mile on American- but thanks for the tip. Terry