Citizenship and Land Purchase

[SallyMevans]

Can anyone help me???
I was born in Trinidad (1957) and would like to know if it allows me to buy land in Tobago as a "citizen" even though I do not have a T and T Passport? I have a British and Australian passport but lived my first 15 years in Tobago...

Also, what is the latest on the guidelines for purchase of land by foreigners ?

So happy to have stumbled on this forum as my heart has stayed in Tobago and i have a dream of returning there to retire!!!

Thanks in advance for your help.

Sally

[Clyde Alleyne]

Dear Sally, your best bet to get the most up to date information regarding the purchase of property in Tobago would be to contact one of the Tobago real estate agencies: try Dawn Glaisher of Sea Jade Investments ([email protected]) or Natalie Mahabir of Caribbean Estates ([email protected]). I suspect that you will need to be able to prove that you are a T&T national if you wanted to purchase property as a national (acquiring a T&T passport would probably be the easiest way). If you wanted to purchase as a foreign purchaser, Dawn or Natalie should be able to let you know the procedure to be followed as well as which areas in Tobago are designated as non-contentious regarding requests of approval to purchase.
Hope this helps,
Clyde

[SallyMevans]

Thanks Clyde for your help. I will contact the real estate agents to see what they have to say. I think you are right that I will need to get a T&T passport.

I love reading everyone's comments about Tobago and totally understand how so many people are hooked. Everywhere I go I compare it to Tobago and nowhere has ever matched up to it! Can't even say exactly what is so special but it has a charm and beauty that are unforgettable! Have not been back for 18 years and i think a lot has changed but this site will help me keep in touch.

We appreciate all the time that you and Steve put in to answer all our questions.

Cheers

Sally

[Clyde Alleyne]

Dear Sally, good luck with your pursuit of buying a property in Tobago. I have a home in both Trinidad and in Tobago and one day plan to make the move to Tobago permanent. Purchasing as a national would afford you the widest range of choices for purchase, as non-nationals are only allowed to purchase in areas that were developed for non-locals (ie especially Tobagonian). As an example, Castara, Plymouth, Speyside, Charlotteville would be off-limits for non-national purchase, whereas Mt Irvine, certain areas of Bacolet, Tobago Plantations and Samaan Grove are designated allowable for non-national ownership.

Just note that if you wanted to get a TT passport that it's potentially a long, drawn-out process. You can make inquiries at the T&T UK consular office for the process that would apply to your circumstances, but I believe that the first step is to get a new computer-generated Birth Certificate as a prerequisite for the passport application. Don't assume that you can make a two week trip down to T&T and fly back out with your passport in hand! Think months (>1 year?) rather than weeks...
Clyde

[SallyMevans]

Hi Clyde

Thanks for all your advice. I am sure getting a passport will be a long drawn out process !!

Good info about the different areas non nationals can purchase. Where are Toabago Plantations and Samaan Grove as they did not exist in my days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also has King's Bay Estate and Golden Grove been developed? I remember many a wonderful day as a child at the private waterfall at King's Bay and at the point at Golden Grove!

Best Regards

Sally

[Clyde Alleyne]

Sally,
Tobago Plantations high-end residential development built around a golf course. It is in Lowlands, was developed in conjunction with the Tobago Hilton which is now defunct and since renamed Vanguard Tobago and undergoing refurbishment at present.

Samaan Grove is actually off the Golden Grove Road! Angostura purchased the section of the Latour estate between Golden Grove Road and the sea at Buccoo Lagoon, intending to develop the entire area as a high-end residential hotel 5 star hotel and golf course resort. Angostura completed Phase 1 which became the Samaan Grove Development - a gated residential development with about 150 lots (in fact my Tobago house is in Samaan Grove). Unfortunately Clico (Angostura's parent) imploded and the global economic malaise has taken its toll and its now doubtful whether the rest of the grand plans will ever come to pass. The point you referred is popularly called No Man's Land (officially called Sheerbird's Point) and is still very popular - landside acess is only via the Samaan Grove Development. No Man's Land is actually my personal favorite beach in Tobago.

I've never been to King's Bay and the waterfall there so can't comment from personal knowledge. Perhaps other forum readers might be able to update you about the situation there.
Clyde

[Carol G]

Hi Sally,
Some info on Kings Bay for you. No, it has not been developed (maybe a good thing)....I think it was around 2000 that some one went in and started doing some development (cutting, burning, bringing in trucks to move the dirt, etc) without permission or approvals. After a lot of outrage from various people and groups the development was stopped. The only sad note to this whole affair...the old plantation house appears to be rotting and always closed up when we driven past. The "approved" plan was for it to be turned into a hotel and restaurant. Got to visit once in the early 90's; magnificent old house with stunning views! Not sure if the waterfall you mentioned is the one that that can be reached just off the road...there is still a shed. My understanding was that it's only worth visiting during the rainy season. The beach is still nice, not too busy...has lifeguards and showers now. Keep wanting to do a BBQ;there are raised ones to use. Good luck on your plan to buy some land.
Cheers, Carol

[SallyMevans]

Hi Carol
Really appreciated your post on King's Bay. Very sad to hear that the old plantation house is rotting. My parents were friends with the American owners (50's and 60's) and we spent many weekends at the beach there and at the Waterfall which was just off the road. I remember magical lunches in the Plantation house when it had immaculate shining floors and amazing views from the verandahs. There were chandeliers and paintings and rugs from all over the world.There were servants at every doorway, all wearing white gloves and starched aprons!

After lunch I was banished to the upper floors where I would explore a vast maze of rooms and then sneak into the tropical gardens which surrounded the house. The gardens were filled with Hibiscus with delicate Hummingbirds and on the verandah were the Sugar Birds stealing sugar from the tables!

Thanks also Clyde for the info on Samaan Grove. Do you still have to open and close 5 gates to get to the Point at Golden Grove?!! Glad to hear the good reviews of Blue Haven Hotel as it was a Police Station on my last visit and the pool was cracked and looked like it would fall into the sea!
Cheers Sally

[Clyde Alleyne]

Sally, once inside and past the Samaan Grove security entrance, there's just one barricade and then its clear access to the point. The track still branches to a gate at Golden Grove Road but the gate is now permanently locked and the only land-side access to the point is now via the Samaan Grove development itself.
Clyde

[SallyMevans]

Thanks Clyde-the Samaan Grove development sounds very nice especially having access to the beach at Golden Grove.

Does anyone know if any foreign purchasers have been successful in purchasing property outside the Designated Development Areas? It says it is considered on a "case by case basis". My father built a house in 1960 in The Whim, overlooking Scarborough, and I can identify it easily on Google map. I dream of returning there!! Wonder if I would stand a chance of getting permission to buy it (if it came onto the market)?????

Diamond Estate also seems to be part of the Designated Area.....Has this area been developed?

Thanks

Sally

[Frank and Mina]

Hello Sally.

I'm following your post with interest. I also grew up on an island but not in the tropics and I can understand the pull on one's heartstrings. Mina was lucky enough to grow up in Zanzibar which always sounds very exotic.

If it were my choice I would rather live up on the Whim. That's because i like the view back to Scarborough, especially at night with all the lights twinkling on the hillside. Watch the ferries and occasional cruise liners too. It would be fantastic if that house became available for you.

Something to bear in mind in relation to Lowlands and Golden Grove etc. is that Tobago is becoming increasingly aware of the potential threat of a tsunami. Of course, the likelihood is slim but, quite sensibly, TEMA, the emergency management agency has issued leaflets and a DVD about preparedness for such disaters.

As you know, much of the south west of the island is not very high above sea level. The first higher ground is on the Mount Pleasant side of Shirvan Road. Since they urge people not to use cars to evacuate, that represents something of a brisk walk from Crown Point or Bon Accord. If tsunami phobia catches on it might affect future development and properites in low lying areas.

We stay in Scarborough just above Milford Road. Since the previous Asian tsnunami it is not uncommon for the subject of "How far up the hill do you think the water would come?" to arise. "Not quite up to the gate" is my usual reply to our landlady.

Frank

[SallyMevans]

Hi Frank and Mina
Yes the island does still "pull on my heart strings" every day! My husband is tired of hearing me compare every coconut tree, every beach , to Tobago!!!!!! Yes I would rather live up on the hill too.When I look at Google map at our old house, it is scarey to see how many houses have been built up there. We used to be the only one on the ridge! Tobago will have changed so much!

Tsunami phobia is cerainly very evident here in the Pacific, with almost daily earthquakes. After Japan, we had an 80cm tsunami and i notice that seafront properties are hard to sell and some are dropping their prices!

We are off to Vanuatu for a few days to see if I can get a glimpse of the "old days" in Tobago! One thing I miss on these islands is the tinkle of steel drums being tuned,floating over the hills!

Sally