myTobago – your questions, review and comment about Tobago

Hi Jill & Steve,
lots of "bays" to discover at the new forum - altough I'm a little bit missing the "birds view" from former forum. And I'm interested in what other users think about the change. nikla (although changed: from Nick L. to nikla) .

Hi Nikla,

I did not like the new forum initially, however after a couple of posts, I am finding that the info is easier to get to and grouped really well. I like it and I think having to register can only be a good thing. How have you found it?

Hi Nikla and Michelle

Thanks for your feedback. I imagine your own reactions are pretty much shared by everyone, but I am sure you will grow into the new forum.

Although I say it myself, the old forum was strictly amateur. It was fine whilst the site was only handling four or five posts a week, but you wouldn’t believe how much admin time it was taking me tweaking it to maintain reasonable performance. The “birds-eye” view was nice and simple and would be appreciated by those not used to forum boards, but it was only use for seeing what had been posted in the last few days. As a research tool to find comment on any specific subject it was a total loss.

I transferred the 1200 most recent and informative posts from the 1400 on the old board. Most of this useful data was literally lost on the old forum. By grouping them into subject-related forums, readers will hopefully be able to quickly find any posts related to whatever they are interested in. On top of that, the ‘Search’ facility actually works on this forum (although there’s still room for improvement).

With regard to the birds eye view, nikla, you have almost the equivalent. On the first page of the forum, click the link “View posts since last visit”. This will give you a summary view of all posts since you last connected. You can then click on the Subject line to read the full message – a little like the old system.

It’s been a big disappointment that virtually nobody has voted in the hotel polls. I would have thought that these running polls should/would have been a great help to other users, but obviously to be meaningful they need to reflect the opinion of lots of people. Maybe viewers haven’t spotted them yet. We’ll just have to see how it goes. It’s probably better that I refrain from comment today. Its very early days and I must admit that myTobago is not my favourite topic at the moment. I work my xxxxx off over this site and I’ve had two nasty emails this weekend that frankly make me want to dump the whole project. I know I’m being over sensitive, but who needs it!

Anyway, that’s my problem. Keep smiling and enjoy!

Hi Steve - the forum is good, nay highly impressive, although it is taking some getting used to I am sure the long term prospects for the site are much improved. As for nasty emails, this is unacceptable and certainly undeserved as your work is boosting the profile of Tobago, drawing in tourists and therefore jobs/money for the locals. Unfortunately there are those who want Tobago to remain undeveloped, but in my opinion an improvement in financial prospects for the locals does not equate to 5* hotels swamping unspoilt beaches - or maybe I am being naiive. Anyway, don't take them to heart and keep it up. How about a name and shame board where you publish the nasty emails? I suppose that might lead to an unseemly public squabble with members leaping to your defence, plus potential legal problems, but it would be nice to turn the tables. If any of them are offensive to the point of criminality then there may be various actions you can take (ie harassing, threatening etc), and I may be able to advise you in private on action you can take. Best wishes and keep smiling, Glyn

Dear Steve,
Glyn is absolutely right in my opinion. Your forum is great and it can achieve a lot for Tobago and its people. Of course there will be people who wouldn't like the forum, because they may not get so much good comments. In my opinion people are free to tell what they don't like. Others who enjoyed that place or the manager itself have the opportunity to tell their point of view. But to write nasty and offensive letters only disqualifies the person who is writing that kind of things...
Steve, nobody can fire you like Peter Arnett got fired - keep on going, I am sure that many people support you...

Hi Glyn & Jorg

Thanks for your support.

NO, Glyn, emails sent to me privately are just that. I may “use” the information contained therein, so to speak, but I will never attribute it to someone without their express knowledge and permission. If people aren’t confident that they can write to me in total confidence, I won’t get half the information I need to run this site properly. Whether I like the content or not is immaterial. Posting in the forum is another thing altogether – I will gladly name and shame anyone who bring Tobago or tourism on Tobago into disrepute – and it is largely the private information I receive from visitors that helps me to cross the line and ‘out’ the few baddies.

The sad event that resulted in my comments is that two correspondents have written – one quite offensively – complaining about the new forum registration. I must say that neither were connected with Tobago business - one was from a guy in American and I know that other one, a lady, is from Canada. The stupid, stupid thing is that by emailing me, I obviously know the only ‘personal’ information that they would have to give when registering.

It had always been my hope that registration would not be necessary, even though it is a normal security precaution on nearly every responsible forum board. It is a sad fact of life that boards are always open to abuse and sadly myTobago is no exception. Most regular readers will have seen the Tropikist bogus endorsement the other week and I confess that this incident tipped the balance.

Another factor is the fact that I’m putting my neck on the line with this forum. As publisher of the site, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that I could be held responsible for the comments and statements of others. I know it is a moot point legally, but nevertheless, I am in the firing line. Why the hell should I risk publishing comments and statements from people who aren’t even prepared to divulge their email address to me? After all, it’s not as if this is a commercial site and I’m “profiting” so can afford to take a risk.

I do not need, or want, email address for any purpose other than to check that the address hasn’t been used with another account on the forum. You can use any name you like, but each email address can only be used once. We are not a commercial site. There’s no chance of the address being used to send unsolicited marketing information, or of me ‘selling’ or releasing the mailing list to others. In fact, the system doesn’t even give me a list of email addresses.

The user’s email address allows me to ensure that anyone “banned” from the forum does not attempt to set up multiple user accounts. It enhances the integrity of the site. People are less likely to post libellous or malicious posts; business owners can be identified and are unlikely to post bogus endorsements of their own business or criticism of competitors. Those with manipulation in mind will find it much harder to get round the system – although the strongest deterrent probably still remains the dangers of being “named and shamed” if they attempt to do so.

Over and above the security aspect, having a user’s email address offers several advantages. Firstly, it allows users to “watch” interesting topics and instruct the forum to notify them by email whenever there is a post in that topic. Similarly, you can instruct the board to notify you of replies to questions you have asked, or topics you have contributed to. Surely this is better than having to constantly connect to the forum to check whether somebody has replied?

Secondly, it allows visitors to communicate privately – without disclosing their email address, should they so choose – through the forum’s private message facility. There may be many times when it would be useful to pass on information or offers of help that they do not wish to publish in the forum. The system will not be abused because users (especially Tobago business users) will be banned from the system if they pester or abuse the privilege.

One of the correspondents who upset me said that I was being too intrusive by asking visitors to use proper names rather than nicknames or aliases, and by asking for ‘personal’ information like their location. One lady particularly criticised my notes suggesting that photographs should be used as avatars, in preference to graphics or cartoons. May I please explain the thinking behind these requests.

Firstly, this is a serious, mature board. We are a community of people interested in Tobago. I assume that all of us would be delighted to voice exactly the same things that we express in this forum were we to meet face to face on a Tobago beach or in a Tobago barand would, I assume, not hesitate to introduce ourselves. We are simply using modern technology to enhance our next (or past) holiday experience. The fact that we are using this technology does not mean that we have to become the half-witted geek morons that inhabit the average bulletin board.

Readers who have visited other bulletin boards will know exactly what I mean. It is a sad fact of modern life that bulletin boards (forums) seem to attract elements of society who are totally incapable of handling normal social interaction. Sadly for me – as it is my chosen profession – most of them seem to work in IT and/or the computer industry.

Let’s be honest and frank here. I run this site and forum for fun. It is a hobby. That should not diminish or demean the site. It is a very, very serious hobby. The new forum took me a little over 90 man-hours to set up. That is time that I could have been using to EARN. Had I done this task for a client and charged the going rate for the hours and technical expertise required, I could have enjoyed a very nice holiday in Tobago.

I didn’t expend those hours for the businesses on Tobago and neither for our readers – with all due respect to both groups. I did it for the waiting and bar staff, the maid and cleaners, the shop assistants, the general working local population of Tobago, most of whom are struggling by on TT$8 (81p/US$1.30) per hour.

The price of this is that I would prefer to do it my way. By this, I mean that I’ll be damned if I’m going to expend the time and cost for a bunch of geeks. I want to be answering questions and talking to REAL people. How the heck can anyone take a question seriously from somebody called “whizzo”? I just think of them as “geekhead” or “saddo”.

If we’re going to offer our spare time researching and writing replies to people, then is it unreasonable to ask that at the very least they offer their first name? It’s nice to know that you’re communicating with a real person. The use of photographs is part of the same process. It helps us to build a community – a sort of club, if you like. Many people may visit this forum just once or twice whilst researching a holiday, but many, many more visit on a regular basis, simply to keep in touch with Tobago. It is a form of community. It may be a virtual experience, but it can still be real.

I truly believe that my ideas will enhance the medium and make the forum more enjoyable, useful and worthwhile. Which advice would you take more seriously – that of somebody with a ‘normal’ name above a photograph of a ‘normal’ person, or the comments and advice from somebody called “geeko” above an inappropriate cartoon?


Finally, the question of location is actually quite important. I am in no way being rude, but my suggestions to somebody from America, say, could be quite different to somebody from, say, the UK or Germany. Knowing what part of the world a question comes from can have a material affect on your advice or recommendations.

Just a final word to those readers who know and understand what I’m saying but who have reserve because of that dreaded word “The Internet”. I have been running this forum and its predecessor for over three years now. I have a number of corporate and private sites and have always adopted the policy of publishing my full name, address and contact details. Never once in the eight years that I have been involved with the Web have I regretted that policy or suffered abuse as a result.

Anyway, that’s my rant for the day over. Sorry folks. I’m off to cut the lawn for the first time this year, and then I’m going to have a beer with a hot Indian curry. Tomorrow will look completely different, I’m sure.

Keep smiling

Steve (and all contributors to this forum), let's preserve what's been built up. I can understand completely the registration thing. It will keep and improve quality in general. I can't imagine those who understand the motives of your policy would disagree. Steve, your explaination is good, though maybe partly more to ease your own mind than nesessary to explain, of course I understand this first motive could have been far more urgent at certain moments.

Besides that, my overall impression is that you performed a big jump forward in quality for both one time and regular users/viewers.
The time for visitors getting used to the "look and feel" won't be too long.

About the polls, maybe you should give it more emphasis for a while and make the score more visible (after a certain quantity of response).

Don't worry about yesterday, cause it belongs to the past; don't worry about tomorrow cause it belongs to the future

Steve,

I have to say I agree with everyone else. You have done a stirling job with this site. If you hadn't have had a site like this, who knows, we may not have ended up going to Tobago for our honeymoon and that was the best holiday that we have ever had. I think you, your knowledge and this site is invaluable for anyone who has an interest in Tobago.

My advice is ignore the stupid e-mails and carry on regardless ! I love it ! And I would post more often if I had more to say and my boss wasn't always sat a desk away from me

As for the feedback things I thought they were very good and useful but as we didn't go to any hotels when we were in Tobago I cannot use them really. Look forward to seeing other people use them though.

Well done,

Niki

Hi Everyone – including those who’ve written privately – thanks! Sorry, I didn’t mean to sound off, but when you invest as much of your life into a project like this, it becomes a sensitive subject.

Sadly, the saga continues. The gent from California has written again, incensed that I referred to the matter publicly. He states that I’m going about things "just the right way to alienate Americans" and wagers that they will shun the site. I seem to remember an email or forum post some months ago from an American lady who said the site would fail because I was “judgmental”. Given the other post this weekend from the Canadian lady, I seem to be somehow putting my foot in it big time as far as North America is concerned.

I don’t know whether I’m upsetting some of our trans-Atlantic cousins because the site uses British-English spelling, or if they are taking offence at an apparent British dominance of the site, but sorry folks, that’s simply corresponds with the visitor demographics of Tobago. Look at this page – we have messages from a total of five countries (we won’t count Niki – she’s only from Wales. ONLY JOKING! ). No, this site is truly international and I’m delighted that it is so. That’s another reason why it’s so nice when people put their locations in their profile. (DIG,DIG)

Your comments and support are appreciated. We’ll just have to see how it goes. It’s up to the readers at the end of the day. As I say, I’m not prepared to put in the time and cost simply to provide a forum for faceless, nameless virtual people. If I can make the forum work, providing a community discussion forum for REAL people from REAL places, then the effort will be worthwhile and we’ll give it our all. Personally, I just don’t see what the problem is. I must be missing something.

Meanwhile, may I close with a message to E… from Santa Barbara – the “Log out” link is at the top of the page. You are welcome to stay or welcome to go, but please at least refrain from sending me those sort of emails.

Hi
Just wanted to post a note to say thanks for the new look which I think is fine.
I have not posted much but I always "lurk" around and appreciate your efforts and the information available.
I have also found new contacts to communicate with and share ideas concerning Tobago.
So thanks a lot.

Hi Steve, On behalf of all those waiters and cleaners we want to say thanks. Many of us in Tobago underestimate the value of the internet in business today. Your efforts are at forefront of changeing that and will set the standard by which others will be judged. Your passion and love for Tobago seems to be your driveing force, something that some "cultures"cannot identify with. THanks again Steve and I assure you that hot curry and cold carib does wonders to the heart, mind and soul . [ and the belly too.] PS make sure it's hot curry and cold carib and not the reverse :lo l:

Steve 86 Members now and still growing whats the bet its 100 by the week-end

Probably not John. I've decided to introduce some username restrictions and make Location madatory for reasons largely discussed above. Just sent an update to all registered users and already got one back with an invalid email address, so must delete that account - so the numbers might go down.

Just to explain to everyone, I've decided that in future usernames MUST be a proper name - i.e. no nicknames or aliases, etc., except in special cases (i.e. Sheppy registered an account last night - I think even he's forgotten his first name, so that's perfectly acceptable).

I know this will not be popular with some people but I have to plan for the future. How can you take people seriously when they hide behind an alias? How can you believe their comments? If what they say is true and valid, why are they afraid to put their name to it? I accept that some people are shy, so abbreviating the family name is fine - that's why I use to always sign the old forum Steve W to sort of set an acceptable standard for people. It was all going fine, but standards have started to slip over the past couple of months and if I allow it to continue, real people will start to worry that there is some reasons why they shouldn't use their real name.

Location is not as vital. Even the country is good enough. I ignored a question a month or so ago because the writer used a silly alias and the language was virtually illiterate. They wrote to me personally and I realised that they were from a non-English speaking country. I don't want to make that mistake again. Geeks I have to work with and can avoid in this forum; but discourtesy to foreign-language visitors is inexcusable; so this will all help keep the standards up (hopefully without driving too many users away). Just a point though - knowing where are users are coming from really helps influence the content of the main site. We're getting an increasing number of users from Canada. Maybe we need to increase the Canadian content in our Air Travel section for instance.

Steve thanks I must agree with your coments, why be ashamed of your name or area you come from, we have all been given one and we all have to live somewhere. Bet still on 100 by the week-end, come on you nameless and homeless people if you like this site as I am sure you do or you would not have registered in the first place show Steve your support and complete his request.
A myTobago Fan of the first order.

Hi Steve,

Great new forum, much easier to navigate, it must have taken considerable effort to set up. I fully appreciate your requirement for registration, I just hope it doesn't deter the casual visitor from posting potentially interesting replies or comments. It is depressing that there are people who would seek to gain advantage from what is essentially a philanthropic enterprise.

I am quite confident that the info gleaned from this site will enhance our experience when we visit in May. Good luck with your endeavours.

Dear John (Hill),
as an act of solidarity with the Whoolers - surely we will reach the 100! So: husbands and wifes, daugters and sons, tobago-travellers and tobago dreamers - start your engines, please! My wife Uli (married on Tobago this year) will give an example soon! (otherways: divorced on tobago soon, too !)

Hope, we will soon come back to normal buisiness on mytobago after this hard and necessary discussion above. I think, mytobago wasn't created to bring Steve in this state of mind, which we call in german "urlaubsreif" - freely translated "ripe for a holiday". And if it's so: I'm shure, he and Jill know where to go!

Hi Barry & Nick

Thanks for your comments and support.

I’ve always figured that possibly more than 85% of our readers have never used a forum (bulletin board) in their lives. Consequently the driving force behind my development concept has been simplicity.
If I’d started off with the current system, it would have been dead before it even started. However, hopefully the newest 1,200 posts from the old board give the new board enough content to make new readers persevere.

Sadly, it was the very simplicity of the old board that would have been its undoing. People were already starting to ask the same questions over and over again – simply because replies giving the answers were effectively lost in the depths of the old forum. When people have taken the time and trouble to write detailed replies and reports, it seems almost disrespectful to operate a system that casts their message into a bottomless pit after only a few weeks. The onus was on me to offer a board that would ensure that all messages can be readily found or seen for as long as they are valid.

I totally accept that the new forum may appear daunting to many initially. However, hopefully the content will quickly make users realise that it is worth persevering. Once they’ve got the confidence to check out the features, everyone will soon see that it’s infinitely better than the old system.

The first time users re-visit the forum, they will see that new posts are highlighted and moved to the top of the list. One very good tip is to use the “View posts since last visit” link at the top (right) of the page. This gives a useful summary of all new/replied topics. Being able to “watch” a topic and get an email notification of replies is obviously a huge advantage.

Leaving aside the legal aspects of running the board and desirability of undertaking some basic precautions to deter the worst abuse, the decision to introduce registration was not a light one. Because of the nature of our board, I truly believe that without restrictions the standards would have dropped over coming years. We were starting to see it on the old board. More and more people were using silly nicknames. Then the standard of language drops and you end up with this modern bulletin board/email-speak which can often be harder to understand than Swahili.

The truth is, I couldn’t care less what a person’s name is – it is simply a device to keep the board usable. Users visiting the board for the first time will hopefully be reassured. If they notice that most posts are from nicknames, they will automatically think there is some reason to avoid using a proper name when registering. This in turn questions the integrity of the board. I know I have constantly used the term "real" people – but it’s exactly what this is about. A real discussion about real topics, for and by real people.

Technical colleagues in the IT trade have been amazed by the high standards exhibited by contributors to our forum. This obviously reflects our readership. I am desperate to keep it that way and not allow the forum to descend to the intellectual levels of most boards. The new system and policies hopefully will allow that to continue. It’s not just that I owe this to all the regular readers who have made the board what it is –I am simply not interested in doing the ‘job’ otherwise.

Only time will tell whether I can meet my objectives, but one of the beauties of running a non-commercial site like this is quite simply that I can take the risk. I don’t have advertisers or anybody else to convince or keep happy. I would prefer a board containing 1000 “good” and useful messages to one with 50,000 geek-speak utterances.

Well Nick, I certainly am ready for another holiday – but I’m not sure whether I’m ready for Tobago. I love it dearly, but somehow its beginning to see more like work than pleasure. I’m only kidding.

Now, I’ve waffled on quite enough. One of the very best things I ever did was to learn touch typing (some readers may say it was the worst thing I ever learnt – my tomes may have been shorter otherwise). I’ve simply taken the time to explain my concepts in detail because over 250 viewers have visited this thread, so somebody is obviously interested in the changes and they deserve a full explanation of my thinking.

End of subject. I won't "lock" the forum, but let's move onto things directly relating to Tobago.

hi steve

As one Newbie to this site as you know, I can not compliment you enough on it, Excellent site keep it up.

No matter what you do in life there is always someone who wants to try and knock you down is this Jealousy in disguise. I have never seen so many posts of support for a site from all walks of life

I personally found this the most informative site on Tobago on the web

too much to take in on 1 visit and far too much to remember will have to print off the advice to take with me then I wont have to buy a book for the beach LOL

99 members - who will make it? Steve, we need flowers/alternative a wellcome carib.!

YOU DID IT!!!!! OF COURSE!!!!!!