One should not forget that it is not only the attidudes from locals against females which need a change, also the female visitors attitudes.
They should understand that they in no way can act as they use to do at home, simply because they are not at home.
Never mind how they feel about locals "unritten laws" and so forth, they have to accept that, for example, topless sunbathing is not allowed, I belive it is still not allowed by law. They will for sure get attention from wrong guys. And young girls, 15-17 years, should be told by others (parents/friends) that they have to act in a fare different way compared with at home.
Of course, male visitors sometimes also make big/small mistakes when dealing with local fermales when they visit Tobago, but female visitors do mostly get bigger problems, simply because they are females.
Travel Advice to Tobago has changed.
-
Lou W
Tell me Ronald, as a female visitor how should I act??
I am curious about your comments. Are you saying that tourist's shouldn't get involved with the local people because it may cause trouble?? If you are I would gladly like to know why.
The very sad incident with the young girl could of happened anywhere in the world, there have been people murdered everywhere cause of breakdowns of relationships. It is something that is not isolated to young girls and local lads on holiday.
I am curious about your comments. Are you saying that tourist's shouldn't get involved with the local people because it may cause trouble?? If you are I would gladly like to know why.
The very sad incident with the young girl could of happened anywhere in the world, there have been people murdered everywhere cause of breakdowns of relationships. It is something that is not isolated to young girls and local lads on holiday.
-
Dianne O.
I think that one should be aware of the culture of the country in which they are visiting to ensure proper respect to the local population. However, I do not think that this "awareness" should prohibit people, including females, from mingling with the locals, getting to know them, etc. If topless sunbathing is prohibited in a country, then visitors should respect that law. However, I do not think that means women should act "differently". I have travelled frequently alone, and usually a polite "no, not interested" etc. works very well when receiving unwanted attention.
The tragic death of the young girl in Charlotteville is troubling. One has to wonder why her mother would permit her child to date a 22 year old man. I am curious as to the laws regarding pedophilia in Tobago. You are right...that incident could have happened anywhere in the world. I am sorry that it happened in Tobago.
The tragic death of the young girl in Charlotteville is troubling. One has to wonder why her mother would permit her child to date a 22 year old man. I am curious as to the laws regarding pedophilia in Tobago. You are right...that incident could have happened anywhere in the world. I am sorry that it happened in Tobago.
-
Lou W
Her mother probably didn't know she was seeing a 22 year old bloke. But yes you are right, what are the laws in tobago, what is the legal age of consent?
After reading the articles in the press, it looks like they were next door neighbours and have known each other for sometime. so a relationship might not have been noticed and could have been mistaken for friendship??
This is something that should not be held against tobago. As I have said in earlier post's, I feel safer there than i do back home. Cant wait to get back there and relax!!
Lou (141 days to go)
After reading the articles in the press, it looks like they were next door neighbours and have known each other for sometime. so a relationship might not have been noticed and could have been mistaken for friendship??
This is something that should not be held against tobago. As I have said in earlier post's, I feel safer there than i do back home. Cant wait to get back there and relax!!
Lou (141 days to go)
-
Ronald
- Tobago Fanatic
- Posts: 480
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:43 pm
- Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Hi Lou
No, I don't say that visitors should not not get involved with locals, not at all. If they doesn't meet locals they for sure will miss something of the friendly Tobago and the Tobagonians.
I made my comments simply because I did only see some comments about the local males attitude, nothing about the visitors own attitude.
And there's a big different between a 15 years old schoolgirl and, let say, a woman of 25-30 year.
When bad things happend, peoples often seems to focus more on the locals attidude, not so much of the visitors own attidude.
I've been travelling to WI since 1987, in T&T since 1989, I was in Trinidad during the coup 1990. I have for sure met both nice and bad peoples, both here in T&T as well into other countries in Europe, Asia and Africa
Bad things can happen everywhere when a relationsship does end. This time I belive the local guy might belived that he had a real relationship with the girl but the girl more did see it as friendship relationship.
Sorry for the missunderstanding, but as a Swede, english isn't my fisrt language. Sometimes I doesn't put the words in the same way as a person from UK or US.
No, I don't say that visitors should not not get involved with locals, not at all. If they doesn't meet locals they for sure will miss something of the friendly Tobago and the Tobagonians.
I made my comments simply because I did only see some comments about the local males attitude, nothing about the visitors own attitude.
And there's a big different between a 15 years old schoolgirl and, let say, a woman of 25-30 year.
When bad things happend, peoples often seems to focus more on the locals attidude, not so much of the visitors own attidude.
I've been travelling to WI since 1987, in T&T since 1989, I was in Trinidad during the coup 1990. I have for sure met both nice and bad peoples, both here in T&T as well into other countries in Europe, Asia and Africa
Bad things can happen everywhere when a relationsship does end. This time I belive the local guy might belived that he had a real relationship with the girl but the girl more did see it as friendship relationship.
Sorry for the missunderstanding, but as a Swede, english isn't my fisrt language. Sometimes I doesn't put the words in the same way as a person from UK or US.
-
Lily Mel
recent developments
Six murders in six months
http://www.thetobagonews.com/index.pl/a ... id=3198710
Warning the authorities about a culture of violence
http://www.thetobagonews.com/index.pl/a ... id=3198727
When reading again this forum and links above......
Who are we to hush up these crimes when "lokal" columnists and editorials has been warning the authorities about a culture of violence, which is fast engulfing their population?!
Lily
http://www.thetobagonews.com/index.pl/a ... id=3198710
Warning the authorities about a culture of violence
http://www.thetobagonews.com/index.pl/a ... id=3198727
When reading again this forum and links above......
Who are we to hush up these crimes when "lokal" columnists and editorials has been warning the authorities about a culture of violence, which is fast engulfing their population?!
Lily
-
Paul Tallet
- Weather Guru
- Posts: 3641
- Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:43 am
- Location: Yorkshire
-
Lou W
Hi Lily Mel,
I wonder if you read any of the news from england. Especially the manchester region? The crimes that are currently happening over here are a lot worse than 6 murders. After speaking to my boyfriend last night, we were discussing the pro's and con's of me moving to be with him in tobago. He told me that a bad crime had happened, someone threw a hand grenade into a dustbin. He didn't mention if anyone was hurt. When I told him about the crimes that have happened over the past week a few miles from my house he was shocked and we decided it was probably safer to live in Trinidad than manchester. Crime happens all over the world or do you not have crime in the netherlands?
Is this your first trip to Tobago? If it is, your getting yourself worried for nothing. You'll come back and will have had a fab time. I think by readin the local news it does put a slight fear into people. As long as you are careful and are cautious with your surroundings then what problem will you have?
I wonder if you read any of the news from england. Especially the manchester region? The crimes that are currently happening over here are a lot worse than 6 murders. After speaking to my boyfriend last night, we were discussing the pro's and con's of me moving to be with him in tobago. He told me that a bad crime had happened, someone threw a hand grenade into a dustbin. He didn't mention if anyone was hurt. When I told him about the crimes that have happened over the past week a few miles from my house he was shocked and we decided it was probably safer to live in Trinidad than manchester. Crime happens all over the world or do you not have crime in the netherlands?
Is this your first trip to Tobago? If it is, your getting yourself worried for nothing. You'll come back and will have had a fab time. I think by readin the local news it does put a slight fear into people. As long as you are careful and are cautious with your surroundings then what problem will you have?
-
Lily Mel
Yes, this will be our first trip to Tobago.
Because I've never been there, as a layman, It's impossible to understand someones feelings.
When I'm comming back late october this year I can tell over here what my
findings were.
What is stunning me, is the rigid behavior about keeping comparing with big cities and areas with a dense population.
This is in my opinon not a realistic one.
With do's and don'ts in my mind I only can indeed imagine the comparison
of it.
What I read over here is that everybody feels safe.
That's a very healthy and the best attitude.
Thank you all for the great relief.
But there is a difference between "are you" or "do you" feel safe in Tobago.
Let's look at the facts who speaks for them selves for laymen.
After a little research, the following statistics:
For Tobago 6 murders within a half year for a population of 50.000
For New York city muder rate 7.8 murders per 100.000 population a year.
3.9 murders for a population of 50.000 in one year.
So 2 murders for a population of 50.000 in half a year.
New York is more crowded, more dense, Tobago not.
I searched for Manchester but could not find untill now.
Maybe you can?
The conclusion for a laymen is: you are var away safer in Tobago comparing to most other big cities.
When knowing the backgrounds, the murders in Tobago were almost between people who knew each other.
So let's say that the chance to be killed as a tourist with good manners is var away.
and behave yourself as you will be in a big city.(petty crime)
The whole thing started what happened with the Britisch Earl and his daughter, wich of course was shocking.
The thing I said before in this topic:
Maybe because it's an Earl the English Foreign Office have made warnings about travel to Tobago
because of that "single" incident.
Look at Aruba last month, Natalee Holloway is missing, her mother and step(father) are people with a huge
influence and wellknown with people from the government. It's a mediacircus.
I think I made a circus over here.
I'm sorry for that.
Lily
Because I've never been there, as a layman, It's impossible to understand someones feelings.
When I'm comming back late october this year I can tell over here what my
findings were.
What is stunning me, is the rigid behavior about keeping comparing with big cities and areas with a dense population.
This is in my opinon not a realistic one.
With do's and don'ts in my mind I only can indeed imagine the comparison
of it.
What I read over here is that everybody feels safe.
That's a very healthy and the best attitude.
Thank you all for the great relief.
But there is a difference between "are you" or "do you" feel safe in Tobago.
Let's look at the facts who speaks for them selves for laymen.
After a little research, the following statistics:
For Tobago 6 murders within a half year for a population of 50.000
For New York city muder rate 7.8 murders per 100.000 population a year.
3.9 murders for a population of 50.000 in one year.
So 2 murders for a population of 50.000 in half a year.
New York is more crowded, more dense, Tobago not.
I searched for Manchester but could not find untill now.
Maybe you can?
The conclusion for a laymen is: you are var away safer in Tobago comparing to most other big cities.
When knowing the backgrounds, the murders in Tobago were almost between people who knew each other.
So let's say that the chance to be killed as a tourist with good manners is var away.
and behave yourself as you will be in a big city.(petty crime)
The whole thing started what happened with the Britisch Earl and his daughter, wich of course was shocking.
The thing I said before in this topic:
Maybe because it's an Earl the English Foreign Office have made warnings about travel to Tobago
because of that "single" incident.
Look at Aruba last month, Natalee Holloway is missing, her mother and step(father) are people with a huge
influence and wellknown with people from the government. It's a mediacircus.
I think I made a circus over here.
I'm sorry for that.
Lily
-
SJKeeler
Lily,
I agree with your last post whole-heartedly. The issue is not the total number of violent crimes, but the number of crimes in comparison to the population. In the seacoast city where I most recently lived, pop. 50,000 or so, there was one murder in three years. So 6 in 6 months is high to me, as well as people who live in smaller communities.
What is distressful is this "culture of violence" which people like to explain away by the fact that "well most of the crime happens within relationships, whereas tourists are relatively safe." That's nice. But what's happening within the culture of Tobago that makes violence a way to resolve conflict? If this mindset is increasing, than that changes the character of the place, whether you are visiting or not.
That's not to say that I don't love Tobago and would live there in a heart-beat if I could. I also love New Orleans and travel there frequently, despite it having one of the highest violent crime rates in the U.S. My point is that you can't campare Tobago with New Orleans, as Lily has said. My other point is that, just because you as a tourist aren't the victim of crime, doesn't mean you should not be concerned about what is happening in Tobago. When people feel that violence is the answer than it is bound to spread unless the conditions that precipitate it are addressed.
I agree with your last post whole-heartedly. The issue is not the total number of violent crimes, but the number of crimes in comparison to the population. In the seacoast city where I most recently lived, pop. 50,000 or so, there was one murder in three years. So 6 in 6 months is high to me, as well as people who live in smaller communities.
What is distressful is this "culture of violence" which people like to explain away by the fact that "well most of the crime happens within relationships, whereas tourists are relatively safe." That's nice. But what's happening within the culture of Tobago that makes violence a way to resolve conflict? If this mindset is increasing, than that changes the character of the place, whether you are visiting or not.
That's not to say that I don't love Tobago and would live there in a heart-beat if I could. I also love New Orleans and travel there frequently, despite it having one of the highest violent crime rates in the U.S. My point is that you can't campare Tobago with New Orleans, as Lily has said. My other point is that, just because you as a tourist aren't the victim of crime, doesn't mean you should not be concerned about what is happening in Tobago. When people feel that violence is the answer than it is bound to spread unless the conditions that precipitate it are addressed.
-
Alan Cb
Travel Advice to Tobago has changed
Although I do not want to create any further alarm concerning the safety of foreigners/ tourists in Tobago, which I do not believe would be justifiable, I would still like to add my agreement to Lily's & SJKeeler's observations.
The number of murders in England & Wales for the period Mar 2003 - Mar 2004 was reported somewhere to be 843, for a population of approx. 52 million, which works out at 0.81 murders/year/50,000 of population, compared to Tobago's 12 murders/year/50,000 of population (extrapolating the 6 murders/6 months to 12 murders/year).
Therefore the murder rate for Tobago in 2005 would be estimated to be 14.8 x the murder rate in England & Wales in 2003/2004.
There is no doubt that there is a culture of violence in Trinidad, which is spreading to Tobago, and in fact has arrived, because the number of murders in Trinidad for the first 6 months of 2005 was approx. 169, which for a population of 1.3 million works out at 13 murders/year/50,000 of population, which is only slightly higher than Tobago's.
Whilst it is true that most of the murder victims are Trinbagonians, I think that the growing culture of violence also puts foreigners & tourists at increased risk, and although obviously this does not justify advising them to stay away fromTobago (far from it), it does justify advising them not to be so naïve about their safety & security whilst enjoying their visit there.
The real sufferers in all of this are the citizens of T&T, who are subjected to a crime situation which has esclated since the attempted coup in 1990, and it is not just murders, it is all forms of violent crimes, including kidnappings, rape & extortion.
Perhaps visitors/prospective visitors to Tobago, who are concerned about the crime situation, should express their concern by writing in to the Trinidad Guardian & Express newspapers.
The number of murders in England & Wales for the period Mar 2003 - Mar 2004 was reported somewhere to be 843, for a population of approx. 52 million, which works out at 0.81 murders/year/50,000 of population, compared to Tobago's 12 murders/year/50,000 of population (extrapolating the 6 murders/6 months to 12 murders/year).
Therefore the murder rate for Tobago in 2005 would be estimated to be 14.8 x the murder rate in England & Wales in 2003/2004.
There is no doubt that there is a culture of violence in Trinidad, which is spreading to Tobago, and in fact has arrived, because the number of murders in Trinidad for the first 6 months of 2005 was approx. 169, which for a population of 1.3 million works out at 13 murders/year/50,000 of population, which is only slightly higher than Tobago's.
Whilst it is true that most of the murder victims are Trinbagonians, I think that the growing culture of violence also puts foreigners & tourists at increased risk, and although obviously this does not justify advising them to stay away fromTobago (far from it), it does justify advising them not to be so naïve about their safety & security whilst enjoying their visit there.
The real sufferers in all of this are the citizens of T&T, who are subjected to a crime situation which has esclated since the attempted coup in 1990, and it is not just murders, it is all forms of violent crimes, including kidnappings, rape & extortion.
Perhaps visitors/prospective visitors to Tobago, who are concerned about the crime situation, should express their concern by writing in to the Trinidad Guardian & Express newspapers.
-
David Watkins
- Bude Cool Boy
- Posts: 1990
- Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:12 pm
- Location: Bude Cornwall uk
- Contact:
I think by using statistics you can prove almost anything.Tobago has about 50,000 residents and about 125,000 non resident visitors (2003)from Europe and North America this makes apopulation of 175000+ so that makes it 1:14.500,or you can say 125000 and no murders!!!!!!
I do believe the old saying there are numbers,statistics and damn lies!!!
Chill out it IS far far safer in tobago than Europe or North America.
David
I do believe the old saying there are numbers,statistics and damn lies!!!
Chill out it IS far far safer in tobago than Europe or North America.
David
-
Alan Cb
Travel Advice to Tobago has changed
David
You seem to be saying that 125,000 non-residents are living permanently in Tobago, alongside the 50,000 Tobagonians, which is of course a contradiction in terms.
In fact I doubt whether the average non-resident stays more than 10 days/Year in Tobago, and therefore non-residents contribute at most an extra 10% to the Tobago population (probably a very generous overestimate).
Furthermore, I would imagine that on a per capita basis, there are just as many visitors to England & Wales.
Therefore, even taking non-residents into consideration, there should be no significant change to the comparative murder statistics (Tobago vs England & Wales) that I have given.
And it would be equivalent to 5,000 non-residents living in Tobago for one year & no murders, versus a stastical 1.2 murders/5,000 of poulation.
As you have so rightly said, quote, " there are numbers, statistics and damn lies!!!
You seem to be saying that 125,000 non-residents are living permanently in Tobago, alongside the 50,000 Tobagonians, which is of course a contradiction in terms.
In fact I doubt whether the average non-resident stays more than 10 days/Year in Tobago, and therefore non-residents contribute at most an extra 10% to the Tobago population (probably a very generous overestimate).
Furthermore, I would imagine that on a per capita basis, there are just as many visitors to England & Wales.
Therefore, even taking non-residents into consideration, there should be no significant change to the comparative murder statistics (Tobago vs England & Wales) that I have given.
And it would be equivalent to 5,000 non-residents living in Tobago for one year & no murders, versus a stastical 1.2 murders/5,000 of poulation.
As you have so rightly said, quote, " there are numbers, statistics and damn lies!!!
-
Paul Tallet
- Weather Guru
- Posts: 3641
- Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:43 am
- Location: Yorkshire
Hi chaps
This is a fascinating debate ... but where is this going?
To measure one's safety in Tobago by quoting statistical data of murders as a ratio of the population seems strange.
I think that people are more concerned about the issue of safety ... murder is one thing ... it is not the only thing that we are scared of ... muggings, robberies and assault are other crimes that affect our sense of safety ... not just murders !!
In order to have some idea of whether Tobago is a safe place or not, you have to compare all the other types of crime too ... if you want to be really fair to Tobago.
I feel safe in Tobago and that is all that matters to me
.
Regards
This is a fascinating debate ... but where is this going?
To measure one's safety in Tobago by quoting statistical data of murders as a ratio of the population seems strange.
I think that people are more concerned about the issue of safety ... murder is one thing ... it is not the only thing that we are scared of ... muggings, robberies and assault are other crimes that affect our sense of safety ... not just murders !!
In order to have some idea of whether Tobago is a safe place or not, you have to compare all the other types of crime too ... if you want to be really fair to Tobago.
I feel safe in Tobago and that is all that matters to me
.Regards
Paul Tallet
Public Relations Consultant for Mother Nature
Public Relations Consultant for Mother Nature
-
Alan Cb
Travel Advice to Tobago has changed
A lot of people feel safe until they, or a friend or someone else close, gets mugged, murdered, or raped.
To ignore the increasing crime rate is even stranger than to quote & compare satistics of murders as a ratio of population.
What makes you so confident that the rates of other types of crimes that you have quoted, have not increased along with the murder rate, and that they are not comparatively worse than in England & Wales ?
I would have to admit though, that my main concern is for the people of T&T.
People used to feel relatively safe in Trinidad, but that is definitely not the case any longer, with the rapid increase in all types of crime over the last 15 years, which is a situation that one would never have imagined pre-1990.
To ignore the increasing crime rate is even stranger than to quote & compare satistics of murders as a ratio of population.
What makes you so confident that the rates of other types of crimes that you have quoted, have not increased along with the murder rate, and that they are not comparatively worse than in England & Wales ?
I would have to admit though, that my main concern is for the people of T&T.
People used to feel relatively safe in Trinidad, but that is definitely not the case any longer, with the rapid increase in all types of crime over the last 15 years, which is a situation that one would never have imagined pre-1990.
-
Paul Tallet
- Weather Guru
- Posts: 3641
- Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:43 am
- Location: Yorkshire
Hi Alan
I am not talking about Trinidad ... I am talking about Tobago.
I agree that crime figures should be monitored but my point was that you do not just look at murder rates to have some sense of whether anywhere is safe or not.
Equally, you cannot just rely on statistics ... there are underlying factors to consider.
Regards
I am not talking about Trinidad ... I am talking about Tobago.
I agree that crime figures should be monitored but my point was that you do not just look at murder rates to have some sense of whether anywhere is safe or not.
Equally, you cannot just rely on statistics ... there are underlying factors to consider.
Regards
Paul Tallet
Public Relations Consultant for Mother Nature
Public Relations Consultant for Mother Nature
-
Henry Prempeh
I must agree with Paul on this. 
Where exactly is this thread heading?:roll: You cannot start looking at a snap shot of data and arrive at an empirical conclusion. If you want to use (or abuse) statistics in this context you would have to look at trend data!:roll: While I admit I do not have access to this data myself, I would still caution the inappropriate use of the limited data that is so readily available. I would suggest that the most useful indicator of safety in this context would be the percieved feeling of safety experienced by the 1600 members of this forum.
I am yet to read of a single individual on this website with a significant concern about how safe they felt during a visit. While it is easy to say that one can feel safe until one experiences a life threatening event, this can relate to life anywhere in the world even the Mauritius. So thanks for raising awareness guys but please leave the statistics to those familiar with their use and lets move on.
Henry
Where exactly is this thread heading?:roll: You cannot start looking at a snap shot of data and arrive at an empirical conclusion. If you want to use (or abuse) statistics in this context you would have to look at trend data!:roll: While I admit I do not have access to this data myself, I would still caution the inappropriate use of the limited data that is so readily available. I would suggest that the most useful indicator of safety in this context would be the percieved feeling of safety experienced by the 1600 members of this forum. I am yet to read of a single individual on this website with a significant concern about how safe they felt during a visit. While it is easy to say that one can feel safe until one experiences a life threatening event, this can relate to life anywhere in the world even the Mauritius. So thanks for raising awareness guys but please leave the statistics to those familiar with their use and lets move on.
Henry
-
Alan Cb
Travel Advice to Tobago has changed
Paul
I'm talking about Trinidad AND Tobago.
Neither should you underplay the crime statistics, nor for that matter the various incidents involving tourists and foreigners, that have occurred over the last couple of years, the one at the Villa near Englishman's Bay being a particularly disquieting one.
It is a matter of recognising and admitting that the crime situation in Tobago appears to be getting worse, and for tourists, taking appropriate common sense precautions when holidaying in Tobago.
I'm talking about Trinidad AND Tobago.
Neither should you underplay the crime statistics, nor for that matter the various incidents involving tourists and foreigners, that have occurred over the last couple of years, the one at the Villa near Englishman's Bay being a particularly disquieting one.
It is a matter of recognising and admitting that the crime situation in Tobago appears to be getting worse, and for tourists, taking appropriate common sense precautions when holidaying in Tobago.
-
Paul Tallet
- Weather Guru
- Posts: 3641
- Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:43 am
- Location: Yorkshire
-
Lily Mel
Well, well, well, here we go again.
The opinions and thoughts about statistics are tensed.
Marvelous peolple!
I fully agree with Alan and I felt the first time
support on this topic, also from Skeeler.
We can discuss over and over about: are you safe in Tobago or do you feel safe in Tobago.
ok, we can split the disussion, is someone for this?
Over here the feelings, talking and chit chat futher more.
And making a new topic about are you safe in Tobago.
Or let's say do you expect to be safe in Tobago.
"Hardcore facts"
Statistics, sources (sites) welcome, talking about culture, (antropology), historic, ethic, psychology, politic, economic and social backgrounds from Tobago.
Enough to discuss and deal opinions about these things instead of persistence or stick to someones feelings.
More profoundness! and of course respect.
Invite locals to discuss with us, that would be very valuable.
Maybe they will not, that's culture too.
An "A+" for Alan:
I like to invite you to choose a name for the new topic if you dare!
Lily
The opinions and thoughts about statistics are tensed.
Marvelous peolple!
I fully agree with Alan and I felt the first time
support on this topic, also from Skeeler.
We can discuss over and over about: are you safe in Tobago or do you feel safe in Tobago.
ok, we can split the disussion, is someone for this?
Over here the feelings, talking and chit chat futher more.
And making a new topic about are you safe in Tobago.
Or let's say do you expect to be safe in Tobago.
"Hardcore facts"
Statistics, sources (sites) welcome, talking about culture, (antropology), historic, ethic, psychology, politic, economic and social backgrounds from Tobago.
Enough to discuss and deal opinions about these things instead of persistence or stick to someones feelings.
More profoundness! and of course respect.
Invite locals to discuss with us, that would be very valuable.
Maybe they will not, that's culture too.
An "A+" for Alan:
So Alan to you the honor.It is a matter of recognising and admitting that the crime situation in Tobago appears to be getting worse, and for tourists, taking appropriate common sense precautions when holidaying in Tobago.
I like to invite you to choose a name for the new topic if you dare!
Lily