Villa security update needed

[JohnGW]

Hello all, my first post on this excellent site.

I'd be very grateful for some balanced and honest update on the security situation for villa rentals. We are a two family group renting a prominent large villa on the main road at the Western end of MtIrvine bay in July. Can anyone on the know give me some views on current safety issues. The villa is well secured but has no guards and I am getting concerned reading some previous reports of villa attacks. We just want a peaceful holiday with our children and to be safe in our holiday home.

Have there been any recent incidents and are we at increased risk in this location?

Thanks

[Steve Wooler]

Hello John

Welcome aboard!

I am not aware of any increase in security risks in Tobago of late.

[JohnGW]

Thanks Steve. Can you let me have some thoughts about the current situation? I asked as I've only seen reports of attacks in 2008/9 and earlier but have read some alarming comments about staying in villas in the area. Is there an ongoing issue with attacks, such a have there been any reported this season or in the last year for example. I'm not so niaive as to be looking for assurances but would like o know if the trend has been ongoing. I'd also like yours and any others views about the specific area. We are in a big property on the coast road right near the Mt Irvine beach facilities as the road turns past Back Bay and I don't know if we are likely to be in an exposed spot or not, or for that matter whether past experiences suggest that we are at more or less risk in the rainy season when it's quieter. If needs be I'll look or some security protection via the owners but don't want o without some better and more informed views.

Anything would be helpful.

[Ronald]

Hi John

I don´t write because "I know better" compared with Steve, but because I´ve been visiting Tobago since 1992, so I have been reading about attacks which affecting visitors into rented houses more than once. No one can say "there´s no problems anymore" as the attacks aren´t a regulary problem.

The area is nice, green and mostly quiet, there are quite many big houses for rental, but that´s also means there a fewer Tobagonians living nearby compared with more "normally areas".

I personally do not believe, that the risk is higher during rain season, compared with the so called dry season, as peoples come to Tobago never mind if it´s raining or not. After all, we all make our booking in forehead, we can´t know how the weather will be when it´s time to go. I´ve been there during rain seasons too, and some year it´s dry as it were dry season.

My personal view is, that it would be safer to rent a house into a village, as there would be more peoples around. But on the other hand, than you would have to live with the normally Tobagonian sound, local houses nearby, sometimes noise and so on.
It also depend if you and your family want to have your vacation in the south, middle or in the north of Tobago. All areas are different from each other.

I stay in the south as my ladys family live there. There are quite many houses for rent in Bon Accord and Canaan, big supermarket in Canaan, beaches in Crown Point (5 minutes with car), but the houses are not nearby teh beaches, you need a car for your family, it´s to hot for long walking.

But Tobago is a very small Island, never mind where you stay, with a car you can visit any beach for a day trip. However, if you do not feel safe wher you stay, than your vacation will not be so relaxing. I hope Steve can give you more specific info which can give you an idea of what to do.

[Steve Wooler]

Hi John

This is always a hugely difficult subject to answer. No, I am not aware of any escalation in the number of robberies on villas and/or in muggings or attacks against tourists. Clearly these things do go on, in pretty much every holiday destination, but whilst I can't say that incidents have reduced, I can neither say that they have increased in the last few years.

John, in many ways reading through this particular sub-forum is your best guage of the situation. Believe you me, if any major incidents occur they will probably be reported first here. The point I'm making is that lack of comment - or, should I say, lack of report of incidents - is a measure of the state of play.

The critical thing is to be aware that despite the relaxed vibe of Tobago, burglaries can and do take place. Only a tiny, tiny few involve personal injury - or even threat. The critical thing is not to be suckered in by the relaxed vibe. You MUST ensure that your villa is properly secured at night. I've lost count of the number of times you hear that a place was burgled and then find that the patio doors were left open to get the most breeze, or similar stories.

[JohnGW]

Steve, that feels like a cautiously worded response. People trying to burgle unsecured properties is one thing whilst an attack from armed groups is another. I'm assuming that there have been no major incidents since the ones I've seen online in 2009. If you know otherwise please let me know. I realise that the absence of recent incidents is no guarantee but if this is a 'real and present' issue then if like to be aware as I think that's very different to there having been incidents in the past. There is a difference between the two I think and I will consider my position if there is evidence that the problem is current and that a family group in a lone villa (although I think it's a relatively secure and not in a remote spot) is a rarity these days so might be likely to attract attention.

[Steve Wooler]

John, of course it is a cautiously worded response. Do you think I want to be sued if you happen to be one of that tiny, tiny proportion of people who get burgled/attacked based. How can anybody comment on vague references that you refer to about things you've seen "online"? As I suggest: READ THE FORUM. Then you must make your own judgement. How can anybody give guarantees, particularly when you have only stated the most general area and not the specific property that you are considering. You'll be asking for guarantees on the weather for your holiday next.

[JohnGW]

I wasn't aware that I'd asked for anything approaching a guarantee from you. I'd asked very clearly a couple of times if there had been any known recent events and I think it's safe to assume that you would be a good source for that. I was struck by the fact that your replies had focussed on talking about a lack of escalation of the risk whih wasn't what I was asking and I was concerned that this may have been a lack of willingness to tell me something.

I thought I'd been fairly precise about location as being at the western end of Mt Irvine bay just as the road turns upwards and the bay swings round into Back Bay, so very close to the picnic facilities and beach bar/restaurant.

[Steve Wooler]

No, I haven't heard of any recent incidents in that immediate area. You should ask the owner or agent as they will obviously have more specific knowledge of the area.

[Hugh S]

Have you noticed that trouble seems to follow certain people around?

I choose to remain somewhat naive so that I enjoy my life to the fullest. That is not the same as walking around with my head up my ass, I prefer to stop and smell the flowers.

Enjoy, Hugh

[JohnGW]

This feels like it's getting increasingly cryptic and I'm sorry if I've given the wrong impression. As I'd said I haven't seen references to violent attacks since 2009. If you know of others since then, like in the last year or so, then it would have been nice to hear. My reference to the area was more about seeking views on the location generally for security as opposed to asking if there had been 'recent' attacks in the 'immediate area'. It may have been unintentional but your answers have just left me wondering why its all so cryptic and suspecting that your reticence is perhaps why you don't want to be the one to tell me something negative.

As I've said there's an obvious difference between there being ongoing attacks and it being a thing that has happened in years gone by. Not that the lack of incidence means it's safe but rather that one implies an active and ongoing danger which I need to avoid whereas the other shows what's possible and justifies caution.

Anyway, sorry to have been a pain and wanted to acknowledge what a remarkably good site this is, definitely the most complete travel site I've ever seen.

John

[Paul Tallet]

I do wonder and please don't take offence ... 2 points ...

1. Why book a villa and start worrying about security afterwards?

2. No news (since 2009) is surely good news ... what if something had happened recently, how would you react?

The problem about Tobago (for visitors) is that it seems to be so much worse to get mugged there than it is in your normal surroundings (i.e.; at home) ... in reality, I would say it would be worse to get mugged at home (which is the more likely case) than while on holiday.

It is so shocking to get mugged/robbed when on holiday ... but it is so rare ... we worry so much because we know it is possible.

I hope this puts it into perspective ... I hope you have a nice time there ... it's lovely, just be as steady as you would be at home or anywhere else in the world.

Regards

[JohnGW]

Paul, fair point easily answered. As I mentioned, a workmate's family have a villa there and an offer mushroomed into a holiday. My brother had been before to the island and loved it and my initial research suggested it was an excellent location. I might add that I dont think otherwise at the moment, but when asking for advice on general issues and places to go on tripadvisor I started getting people suggesting it was a virtual war zone and my research has shown some specific issue in the past but not a seemingly widespread issue. I dont believe the extremes but did simply want to know if it was something that was activly occurring at the moment. Ive travelled and have no problem with dealing wih security issues and the realities of modern life but simply wanted to establish if there were known current and ongoing issues. As I've said many times, regular attacks on lone villas is a real and present danger I would need to plan for, both sharing that info with our friends travelling with us and also considering additional security.

I'm not at all judging the place nor seeking assurances from an ivory tower perspective, just wanting to know if it is as was being painted, which was something akin to a Cape Town situation with it being simply unthinkable to not be in a gated community due to the severity of the threat. As I've said a number of times there is an obvious difference.

John

[Andy K]

John,

i am a resident in both Trinidad and Tobago and i come to Tobago every month. I have just returned from Tobago
where i had the opportunity to talk to a long time friend about the present crime scenario in Tobago.
My friend was employed for several years with one of our law enforcement agencies.
There is a certain development in some villages where men have migrated to Trinidad or abroad for better jobs,
leaving women and children alone with some male "low lives" who can't do better and just deal in drugs.
Some communities in Tobago have deteriorated like that over time which has certainly contributed to an increase
in crime over the past 10 to 15 years.
Nevertheless violent attacks on foreigners and upsurges of house / villa breakins, which Tobago suffered from in 2009,
did not happen to any extend since. I would have certainly heard and read about it.
I also "limed" with a young police constable with 6 years of service, who told me that the police force is in general more motivated now with a new commissioner and new regulations for promotions and improving conditions for the service. I believe we are beginning to see some positive changes here.

Once you come to Tobago during the rainy season, you will find an increased number of tourists from Trinidad now
coming to Tobago, especially during the school holidays and long weekends. So don't expect the island to be deserted.
A large group of "Trinis" next door can be annoying because of the loud music at night, but is also a good deterrant
against possible intruders

A agree with Steve, go and browse through this chapter and you will find numerous comments saying that Tobago is
considered "safe", once you exercise resonable caution and use common sense.

Enjoy your holidays !

[Steve Pitts]

I'm not at all judging the place nor seeking assurances from an ivory tower perspective, just wanting to know if it is as was being painted, which was something akin to a Cape Town situation with it being simply unthinkable to not be in a gated community due to the severity of the threat. As I've said a number of times there is an obvious difference.

John

John

We have visited Tobago since 1999, some 10 or 11 times now and always stay in private rented houses or villas - never in hotels and never gated communities.

There have been attacks and roberies with violence on tourists and families staying in and around the Mt Irvin area, but not to my knowledge since 2008 / 09 (I don't keep records but do notice the 'bad press').

We have never stayed in the Mt Irvin area, but I have friends who have and who have felt quite safe and their holidays have passed without incident.

If you are going to loose sleep over the security of your family and friends and really believe that anyone could honestly compare Tobago to Cape Town, then I would very respectfully suggest that you holiday somewhere else as I fear that you will not enjoy your stay due to the stress and worry.

If, on the other hand, you can accept that there is probably no more risk in Tobago that anywhere else (exept Outer Mongolia ) and can practice the security precautions that you would consider natural at home, wind down, enjoy the wonderful people, food and weather that Tobago has to offer, then you and your family will most likely be safe and have the holiday of a lifetime.

Hope this helps in your deliberations

Cheers
Steve

[JohnGW]

Steve, no we are good to go thanks. I wasnt believing that it was a war zone, but checking others input having been told by one or two on tripadvisor that it was a no go area to be staying in unguarded villas. I think I've got from here the level headed views of enough to be satisfied although sometimes it was like pulling teeth just to get comments on an update to events.

Thanks for your input

[Dalseg]

Hi wanted to add my two cents I have been travelling to Tobago since 1990, including my daughter since 1994. We visit annually, sometimes for a month at a time or several shorter trips per year. I have stayed in the Mt Irvine,Black Rock, Grafton, Plymouth areas. Tobago is a wonderful peaceful island and for me, I have not had a holiday today different from 20 years ago. I understand your concern travelling with your family, but do not be afraid, just be aware as you would be if you were in your local community/town/city.

[Bob]

Reading this thread is certainly a good way of getting a sense of the security situation from folks who know the island well. However, I have also been following the attached thread on tripadvisor, which paints rather a different picture, although there do seem to be some borderline hysterical single-issue fanatics on this question.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g1 ... obago.html

We will be visiting Tobago later in the summer, staying at Jacaranda House. Can anybody offer me any advice about the place generally, and/or security in particular? The very helpful owner advises that the property is fully fenced with a locking gate, a lot of prickly bougainvillea, some discreet razor wire and a nightwatchman from 6pm to 6am. That sounds like plenty to me, but with 3 daughters in our party I want to be sure I have taken all reasonable precautions.

Any advice from this forum would be gratefully received.

[Steve Wooler]

Hi Bob

Welcome aboard!

I regret to say that TripAdvisor is often the last refuge of the disaffected and malcontent. That's what you get when you allow contributors to hide behind stupid nicknames. It's funny how people offer much more balanced view and opinion when they have to publish under their own name and know that the forum is moderated - unlike TripAdvisor who will publish anything, regardless of the truth of the matter.

The only real information we have on Jacaranda House is listed in our Accommodation section. See the listing for that property. I confess that I am most surprised that we have only two now-redundant reports on the property. I have never visited it personally, but I have stayed at (and reviewed) a property directly opposite (Bayview Villa) and wouldn't hesitate to stay in that area again. The description you quote is exactly what I remember of the property. I personally would have no qualms about staying there.

[Richardus]

Just want to add my 2 cents here too. I just returned from my first trip to Tobago, we spent most of the week touring all parts of the island from secluded tourist hotspots, to downtown Scarborough and never once did we feel at risk.
We never noticed any "gangs" or "thugs" or suspicious looking people, the worst we encountered were some overly aggressive peddlers on Turtle Beach, but I believe that is to be expected.

We too, were concerned at first because of reading some things scattered around the internet, but I believe that Mytobago.info has the most accurate representation of what is going on around the island.

Long story short, most of the crime is on Trini and Tobago is the tourist spot. The locals are always interested in selling you anything they can get their hands on as they are simply trying to survive, but we never felt like we were threatened in any way as far as being mugged robbed or whatever.

It boils down to keeping your street smarts about you wherever you go, whether it be at home or in Tobago, or anywhere else. You can read up on security tips on this site about how to ensure it for yourself and family.

There are no major political uprisings, rebellions, riots, or machete gangs roving about Tobago, it is just not that type of place. One of the main reasons why I decided to vacation there myself.

If you want to feel more secure, then maybe you are not ready to rent a private villa just yet. You may want to choose one of the larger resorts which have tons of security all about. Or, at the current villa you are planning to rent, you can always hire a 24hr security guard for a nominal fee which should make you feel very safe.