Castara

David Watkins · Post by **David Watkins** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:47 am

The only thing I can think of is a corruption of French beaucoup or beau coupe,the first roughly means much and the second means pretty and then any of a dozen meanings of coupe.If it is the first perhaps it meant alot of fruit or something and then got reduced to bucoo.Just theorizing,my French is mostly forgotten.
David

Hugh S · Post by **Hugh S** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:07 am

The origin (as relates to Tobago) of both names may be in the book, La Magdalena. Anyone have it? My e-copy won't display in my laptop for some strange reason.

Brian Taylor · Post by **Brian Taylor** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:46 pm

heard about a little spnaish influence already, so it might as wellbe. also heard from ali that castara was in fact more uphill in parlatouvier direction before...
don't tell anyone here that their bloody bay battle story might notbe true, they love it sooo much!

steph

PS: still not counting david?

Tom Kilburn · Post by **Tom Kilburn** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:33 pm

Born on Saturday but could only make Castara the middle name had to compromise

David Watkins · Post by **David Watkins** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:23 am

Congratulations,I pray that Mum and Baby are well
David

Post by **Steve Wooler** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:29 am

Congratulations Tom - to you, your wife and to the baby of course.

Brian Taylor · Post by **Brian Taylor** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:02 pm

congratulations... in your heart she'll always be "castara".... so whats the first name now, if you don't mind my asking...
all the best
steph

Tom Kilburn · Post by **Tom Kilburn** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:09 pm

Imogen

Lisa Keith · Post by **Lisa Keith** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:49 pm

Congrats to you and your family, Tom.

Caribstu · Post by **Caribstu** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:19 pm

buccoo is almost certainly a corruption of the French "beaucoup", meaning large or many ( i forget) as it's used on some of the other islands that speak french patoius such as Dominica and St Lucia for exactly that. Buccoo is used there to mean big.

I'm curious about Parlatuvier. Anyone know for sure? i've often thought about this and got my own idea. I'm guessing here but the next village up is L'anse Formi which must mean "cove of ants" and along the North trinidad coast is Matelot and Sansouci which obviously means "sailor" and "without fear" so the french were obviously poking around here and naming bits of the islands. I cant see any correlation between Parlatuvier and Spainsh, (and seeing as the Brits only ever named places after where they came from, occasionaly putting a prefix of "New" just to be inventive ) so I think Parlatuvier is a corruption of old french "Pas Le Truvier" (forgive the spelling if it's wrong) to mean "Not easy to find/locate/reach" and think it might refer to the cove where the village is located.

It could have some connection to "Parlais Tu" some old french for "you speak?" and the Vie? no idea. But i kinda like my hard to find idea, however Old 17th century french passed down via several hundred years of raw Tobagonian accent is a bit like chinese whispers. But i'd really love to know if there is any definitive translation for Parlatuvier, it's puzzled me for 12 years.

Hugh S · Post by **Hugh S** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:23 pm

The book I mentioned above has all of the origins of place names and the entire history of Tobago. I cannot access it on my laptop to find these answers but it is a must have for any Tobagophile.

David Watkins · Post by **David Watkins** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:28 pm

Hugh,do you have any more info on La Magdalena?The only books I could find with that title were on the religious side.
If you can think of the author or publisher,I would be pleased.
David(counting down)

Hugh S · Post by **Hugh S** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:50 pm

David,

Here is the info:

La Magdalena: The Story of Tobago 1498 to 1898
by David Phillips

# Paperback: 432 pages
# Publisher: iUniverse, Inc. (September 27, 2004)
# Language: English
# ISBN-10: 0595322999
# ISBN-13: 978-0595322992

As I mentioned earlier I bought this as an ebook thinking it would be fantastic to read while on my trip. It worked at home and on the plane but not in Tobago. Same problem last year. Cursed?

I plan to buy a hard copy.

Hugh

PS. I picked up a short of Old Oak to give it the Watkins test. Trying to keep an open mind and not get stuck in a 1919 rut.

Hugh S · Post by **Hugh S** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:59 pm

Here is the Amazon link to the book La Magdalena.
http://www.amazon.com/Magdalena-Story-T ... 134&sr=8-1

Steve Pitts · Post by **Steve Pitts** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:00 pm

Hi Hugh

Like David, I was a little confused and could only find references to titles with religous content.

Thanks for the link and ISBN numbers and from that I have ordered a copy from Amazon.co.uk for £12. As you say, a must read for all Tobagophiles.

Tight lines

Steve

David Watkins · Post by **David Watkins** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:21 am

Thanks Hugh.I hope you have White Oak?
David

Hugh S · Post by **Hugh S** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:10 am

David, Old Oak White. Good stuff but it won't replace my 1919. How do yo drink your White Oak? I have been experimenting with mango nectar, bitters, lime, etc. I've never had to throw anything away!

Brian Taylor · Post by **Brian Taylor** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:06 pm

@DAVID:
would you mind getting a copy for us too and bring it in a hundret and something days? we surely pay for it!!!!
would be great!

sunny greetings steph

PS: and don't tell ali (thats a christma surprise... good that I am usually the forum surfer and point him to interesting point... too busy that man...

)

David Watkins · Post by **David Watkins** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:52 pm

Aaaaw,Steph,I have already ordered a copy as a gift to you!!!!So now it's tea bags then?!!
Hugh,I like to drink it with the fruit punch you get in cans--it makes the drink long and the fruit keeps the liver going so you don't suffer(quite)so much in the am!!
David

Steve Pitts · Post by **Steve Pitts** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:50 pm

Caribstu wrote: I'm curious about Parlatuvier. Anyone know for sure? i've often thought about this and got my own idea.
I think Parlatuvier is a corruption of old french "Pas Le Truvier" (forgive the spelling if it's wrong) to mean "Not easy to find/locate/reach" and think it might refer to the cove where the village is located.

It could have some connection to "Parlais Tu" some old french for "you speak?" and the Vie? no idea. But i kinda like my hard to find idea, however Old 17th century french passed down via several hundred years of raw Tobagonian accent is a bit like chinese whispers. But i'd really love to know if there is any definitive translation for Parlatuvier, it's puzzled me for 12 years.

Hi Stu

I’ve leafed through my new copy of La Magdalena (the book’s title refers to the earliest recorded naming of Tobago) and can’t as yet find the origin of Parlatuvier.

Chapter 1. of this very impressive history, from 1498 to 1898 by David Phillips records the navigators, cartographers and surveyors who first visited and named many of Tobago’s bays and headlands.

What is clear is that due to the numerous claims to ownerships between the Dutch, Courlanders, British, French and to a lesser degree the Spanish (who ‘discovered’ the island, which was then inhabited by Caribs and the Arawaks), some place names have changed numerous times.

CASTARA has for example been known as Kalpi Bay (Courlandian) Calpie Baaei (Dutch) and Charles’ Bay (British) – after Charles I.

Parlatuvier is shown on a 17th century map of a Dutch cartographer’s making as Stetyn’s Baaie.

Other places named are Coerse Baaie (Buccoo), Kanoe Baaie (Canoe Bay), Constant Bay – after Pieter Constant, Dutch commander of the island (Courland Bay), New Fushing (Scarborough), Jacobstadt (Plymouth), Engels Baaie (Roxborough),
De Casimiri Bay (Rockly Bay). In fact Rockly Bay has also been known as – Roedeclip Bay, Lampsins Bay, Great Bay, Read Rock Bay and Rocky Bay.

Perhaps Man-O-War bay can lay claim to the greatest number of name changes. It has been known as – Groete Kuylsack Bay, Manawa Bay, Jan de Moor’s Bay (sometimes corrupted to Jan de Groot, Jean la Mort, Jean La Maule or Jan Morris bay) and John Moore’s bay after a Commodore of the Royal Navy in command of the Leeward Islands Station.

Most of the names of French origin were derived from the period 1781 to 1793 during the occupation by the French, although the author of La Magdalena sites Parlatuvier Bay as being a place specifically mentioned in an account by Capt. Pat Drummond of HMS Tavistock who visited Tobago in April 1751, so it was known by its current name then. Other French derivatives include Louise D’or, Buccoo and Bon Accord.

Charlotteville is not of French origin, but named by the British after Charlotte, the wife of King George III.

Many place names appear to be derivations of the names of people of influence, position and nobility. Those that aren’t, appear to be descriptive namings e.g. Les Coteaux (The Hills), Lambeau (Lame Beau meaning beautiful waves), but the origin of Parlatuvier isn’t listed where there is ample opportunity in the text that I has so far read.

Perhaps your theory regarding the corrupted translation of a descriptive name is as close as we’ll get.

The mystery continues.

Full acknowledgement goes to the author of La Magdalena – David Phillips - for the preceding references