Our recent visit to Tobago

[Maria]

hi again - and thanks for getting back to me.
Agree the Danish tourists were v brave to fight back - but is this something anyone would really want to fact on holiday? I think not.
Foreign Office advice is not issued lightly: US Department of State is similarly cautionary - see below:

In Tobago, the media have reported an increase in the incidence of violent crimes. Some of these attacks have targeted privately rented villas in the southwest of the island. While the authorities have announced increased measures to fight crime, the U.S. Embassy advises that when making reservations at private accommodations, visitors should ensure that 24-hour security is provided.

[Steve Wooler]

Hello Maria

Sorry, I didn’t mean to sound dismissive of the attack. The fact that it was unsuccessful in no way negates the crime. Knowing and ‘feeling’ the situation here meant that I possibly didn’t treat your post as seriously as I should and the funny side of the incident took precedence. Just picture these big local lads trying to be ‘hard’. If they were caught, they will spend a considerable time in prison (they really come down hard on criminals here). Either way, just imagine the ribbing and tough time they will get, in or out of prison, when everyone hears that they were beaten up by a girl.

Can I please comment on the Foreign Office and State Department advisories. Whilst the general comments and advice are good and should be adhered to, they are also somewhat out of date (surprise, surprise!). I did a survey of FO advice on about 20 Caribbean islands about a year ago. Basically they had two standard statements for every island, with just very minor amendments. The current advisory for Tobago was published some 9 months after a serious and short-lived crime outbreak on the island. To be honest, the best source of information on the island is myTobago and/or the various online T&T newspaper (see our Related Sites page for links).

Having just spent seven weeks on the island, please allow me to offer my honest feelings and impressions. Firstly, I have absolutely no hesitation in walking the streets of Tobago, including the capital Scarborough, at any time of day or night, either alone or with Jill. In fact Jill regularly goes off to various quiet beaches, alone, while I’m working. Yes, she gets constant approaches from local men, but never feels threatened or in any way unsafe. In fact, she has said that she feels they are more of a protection than a threat.

The short-lived crime spree at the start of 2004 is over and done with. Yes, there is the odd isolated incident, but there is now a substantial police presence here. This is the very first time I have visited Tobago and been aware of police. More importantly, the police are largely from a special force sent over from Trinidad. Unlike the local police, they are not distantly related to almost everyone else on the island, so haven’t the same need to put the police car sirens on to warn friends/relatives that they are coming and to stop being naughty. Yes, that is what it used to be like to some degree. As a very senior police official told me last year, “We don’t like visitors being robbed or hassled, but it’s a difficult situation. We have our own way of dealing with the bad boys”. This might have worked once, but the Task Force are forcing change. Trinidadian criminals who thought it was easy money to come over here for a day or two’s thievery are finding it a lot tougher. The moment a robbery occurs, the port and airport are subject to maximum security, closing the immediate escape door. It has had a major effect.

Obviously nowhere is totally crime free. Yes, it makes sense to check what security your villa has. Every villa we’ve stayed at in recent years has had night time or 24-hour security. What you have to remember though is that crime is still extremely low. I still rate the security risk here as lower, or at least no higher, than the average rural English village.

I see that you are from London. I can only offer the frank opinion that regardless of where you live in London, you will be safer here in Tobago by a factor of many times to one.

Yes, check what security your villa has and behave sensibly whilst on the island. Other than that, simply Enjoy!

[Maria]

hi - funnily enough the comic side of the attack didn't really strike me.
As a mother myself, I thought rather more about the trauma for all (especially the children) involved.
As per my previous - Foreign Office advice is not issued lightly. If anyone were unfortunate enough to be involved in a serious crime or accident, the Embassy would help to sort things out. This help comes through public funding. We have a responsibility to take any advice given very seriously indeed.

[Bryn]

I must completely agree with Steve. Crime does exist in Tobago, as it does EVERYWHERE else on our planet. I have been to Tobago several times and have never once been afraid for my safety. We stay in secure accommodations and use common sense...don't be flashy and act like an ignorant tourist. If you look like you can be taken advantage of.....you will be. Plain and simple.

As for toursist warnings and such. They are certainly almost always outdated. This includes health warnings as well as security. The friends we went with last year were advise to get a bunch of shots and not to eat or drink in Tobago. A whole lot of hooey! They were told yellow fever is rampant there.....I believe the last known case was in 1962! Our societies thrive on fear and fear mongering. It's simply ridiculous!

Would you think twice about going to London if you heard in the paper that there was a burglery? Paris? Rome? New York? Los Angeles? Vancouver? You wouldn't even think twice would you? Heinous crimes happen every day in our cities and we don't think about it.....yet when something happens in Tobago on the ODD occasion there is always someone who wants to warn the world about it.

I don't mean to belittle anyone for posting whatever they want to on this forum. I just want to remind us all that bad things happen everywhere at a much more alarming rate than in Tobago. Use your common sense and don't allow your sensibilites to be clouded by others fear and experiences. Make your own judgements and visit Tobago!

Sorry for the rant but I couldn't keep it in and know that some people reading about the small crimes in Tobago might not have the opportunity to visit this paradise because they felt afraid. Fear not....and just GO!

Bryn
Vancouver, BC

[Cornelia Montgomery]

I must say that in my town of 20,000, there have not recently been any machete-wielding bandits! Thievery, yes.
However, while I understand the point, when you're in an unfamiliar area, your fear might be heightned because of the uncertainty. A purse-snatching is totally different from being threatened at knifepoint. In your hometown, you have some knowledge about how to deal with such a crime and what the criminals are likely to do.
I don't take much of value with me to Tobago; we take some cash and keep it in a hotel safe; if I lost my clothes and digital camera, no big deal. But the machetes would give me nightmares for years. I remember a few days ago, somebody asked about bring mace to Tobago as a personal protection device. I was tempted to say it would be easier to buy a machete upon arrival.
There's nothing funny about being threatened with death. Until the Tobago authorities get hold of this situation, I wouldn't stay in a private villa. I'd be too nervous.

[Paul Tallet]

Ode to Bryn.

Let us get this into perspective.

I am fortunate to live in a country hamlet in Yorkshire, UK.

A hamlet, by definition, is a location on the map that comprises of not more than 90 dwellings.

It is peaceful and tranquil, there is no shop, no bar, nothing but 90 dwellings and I have lived there for 18 years ... I should add that I have a well stocked drinks cabinet !!

But I chose my home for safety, security, tweety birds, climbing roses, cosy setting and all the other nice things that we seek in our lives.

In my time here, on one occasion I had a granite trough stolen ... this was so heavy that if even 4 strong men had lifted it they would now have permanent lumps behind their ears. Some other sod nicked my hosepipe but that's another story.

There have been 2 serious occasions in these 18 years where pensioners in the village have had their properties invaded, trashed and items stolen whilst the elderly couple listened and held each other in fear in their beds upstairs, praying that the nastiness going on downstairs would STAY downstairs.

Despite the support and sympathy given to these people from my fellow hamleters, both of these incidents led to the deaths of these frail and elderly people within about 3 months, through sheer fear and anxiety.

The offenders were caught ... but they came from other places and therefore the first point of this post is to emphasise that such acts were alien to the quiet and tranquil setting and it is impossible to predict the levels of violence or invasion that one may experience in any such circumstance.

The second point is to emphasise that this kind of stuff happens, even in the safest places of the world.

Finally, every foreign office in the world will tell you to take precautions in any place at any time ... it covers their backs in case a major incident occurs (i.e.; don't say we didn't tell you so !!!) ... it does push it a bit to expect them to predict Tsunami's ... so we won't go there.

Let's face it ... there are resorts in Kenya where there are civil wars raging nearby, resorts in Jamaica where there are street battles between drug gangs within miles of the place, child molesters in many far eastern countries and African countries, travellers robbed at gunpoint on the highways in Spain ... not to mention terrorism in Spain and in many other parts of the world.

So Maria, with respect, is it really fair to continue posting outdated foreign office reports on this forum that were prompted by a few robberies in the first 6 months of 2004, despite the messages of assurance posted in response to your concerns.

Ask yourself ... where will you go on holiday in the world with absolute guarantees of the safety of you and your children?

Answer ... nowhere.

I go to Tobago every year because, apart from it's obvious attractions ... I feel safe there ... more safe than I feel in my own hamlet at home in the cosy rural hills of Yorkshire ... but I know that there will never be a guarantee wherever I go.

There endeth the ode to Bryn.

I hope this helps.

[Maria]

hi all - a few points
- the Danish tourists needed hospital treatment. There was nothing remotely 'comic' about this attack.
- the 'You are just as much at risk in London' argument doesn't work. Yes, there are areas of London where you might be at risk of a knife attack at night. Would I consider taking my children there on holiday? No.
- if you have ever worked in the developing world, or extensively abroad, you will well know what an important role the Foreign Office plays in relation to expatriates. All I would say, again, in conclusion is - this advice should not be ridiculed, ignored or taken lightly.

[Maria]

PS - Paul - just noticed that you thought the attack I mentioned was in 2004. It wasn't - it was two weeks ago.

[Paul Tallet]

Hi Maria

Yes, I know the Danish incident was more recent ... I was aware of that.

The foreign office warnings were made last year due to other incidents and I guess the warning may never be removed because such a warning could apply to every country that we visit in the world and for our very own neighbourhoods ... you take risks wherever you go.

Whilst I respect the points you have made (they are relevant), I am still 100% satisfied that Tobago is one of the safest places to be and I would not let 3 or 4 incidents of this nature per annum put me off.

Cheers ... and I hope you do go back to Tobago, it would be a shame for such fears to deprive you of a wonderful time.

[Jean Sampson]

Sadly any of us at any time or place may experience a robbery or even an attack. I can't help agreeing with Paul- you are probably safer in Tobago than back in the UK. I have travelled a great deal and in all parts of Colombia even though the F.O. advised against going to them. Also in Africa where attacks are commonplace, in Peru where you may find your baggage slashed before you've even arrived at your hotel,( chicken wire lining foils them!) and fortunately not once have I been a victim. I don't flash money, or wear any jewellery or dress in expensive clothes. Do any of those and you're inviting trouble in a 3rd world country, but Tobago I would say, is safer than any country I have visited and certainly a lot safer than in the UK. Just pick up any UK local paper and odds are on there's a reported murder or a violent attack in there somewhere. It's a modern disease and one we may have to risk if we are to go to any foreign country that is worth visiting. I was in Tobago a couple of weeks ago, and on my own a lot of the time, and at no time did I feel threatened.

[Sharon E]

I am currently living in Tobago on a two year work permit and being a single women living by herself in a villa do not feel in anyway threatened out here.

I have heard of the attack and have spoken to the Tour Operator as it made the newspaper. Apparently the family that were attacked were fine and went to hospital for a check up. The family in question are not perturbed by the attack and are indeed coming back to the island. Why?

Because although the attack was upsetting as they stated it could have happened at home, it was the wonderful support they received from the community on the island that were horrified by this and the locals doing everything they could to find these people and the help and support and warmth they felt afterwards.

No where is 100% in this day and age and because Tobago is a small island something like this will get in the newspapers, whereas all the rapes in Ibiza last year didn't for a long time because of the size of the island.

The Home Office page if you read for all countries has an advisory. If you read the American's equivalent for coming to the UK it advises not to come because of the troubles we have (IRA and terrorism yes it is that out of date) yet we still live there and feel safe. Put it into perspecitve.


No we dont have machettes in the UK we have fists, knives, muggers, rapists, guns, road rage and much much more when is there a day go by that you dont read about a murder in the UK tabloids. Sadly, not many in this day and age.

[Terence H]

Been visiting Tobago for some time.

The only time I have felt uncomfortable is at the beach at Store Bay.
As we go back regularly we have got to know a few people there and meet up for a beer at the beach bar, and have a meal from one of the establishments.

We found the `vendors` that walk round trying to sell you stuff are becoming more aggressive.
The guy who comes along and starts rubbing your legs with aloe vera now demands 120 dollars for a skanky leaf.
He became very abusive when we did not buy any.

There is one guy who walks round selling tatty bracelets. When we said we dont want any he told us to go back to our own country, and fixed me with one of those `what are you going to do about it stares`. He was very abusive.

We dont particularly like Store Bay , but it was a place to meet up with old friends and `lime`.
We try and support the local economy and dont mind being bothered , as long as they take no for an answer and dont threaten us.
However this is changing.
They are more aggressive now.
So we no longer seek out our friends at Store Bay.
We no longer give our custom to the bar or the eating establishments on the beach.
As has been said already there are many wonderful beaches and places to visit away from the developed Crown Point area.

All this is far cry from machette wielding bandits !
But just my twopence worth.
Pleased to hear the Danes have not been put off and are going to visit Tobago again.

[Emma]

I have been at store bay with some friends and the beach sellers were "pushy", some more so than others. I too was aproached by some guy selling Aloe Vera, before having a chance to say No, i found myself with it all over my back. I just gave him $5 TT. Which i know is not a lot but I felt it was more than enough because i had not given him permission to smear it across my back. Never before have I come across any violence from anyone in Tobago, most beach sellers appreciate your privacy and usually wait for you to come to them.

[Maria]

interesting that this debate is still raging!
two months on from my holiday - my lasting impression is that tourism is having a very questionable effect on Tobago. Serious investment in the island's infrastructure is needed to develop something more lasting, and more culturally enriching for Tobagans, than tourism.
(apparently) wealthy tourists - in an island where there is not all that much economic wealth - are obviously going to be targets for crime.
i would think twice about going on holiday in a less developed country again.

[Brian Taylor]

no offence, but what reason is there to go to a less developed country and show of with your beeing wealthy....
wear you biggest golden watch in new york and we can bet how long you have it....
as long as you go to a country and try to blend in a bit you might not have to worry!!!

[Paul Tallet]

Maria's post is interesting.

There are counter arguments of course ...


Could Tobago be the target for wealthy tourists as opposed to wealthy tourists bring the targets of Tobago?

What alternatives are there to tourism Maria?

Is Tobago 'less developed' or should we be asking if other countries could be 'over developed'?


There needs to be some kind of balance to the theories ...

Regards

[Maria]

dear all
do agree that people flashing their wealth are going to attract attention (and probably negative!). Was just making the point that there is a huge gulf between the wealth of tourists and the poverty of large sectors of the population on the island.
Paul asks what else does Tobago need? It would be good if funding was available to boost light industry, agriculture etc. To improve health services and combat rising hiv/aids rates, unemployment etc.
Tourism is a bit of a false friend in an economy, tending to create mostly service jobs (and in Tobago, having a pretty negative effect on the environment in some areas like Pigeon Point).
(I simply meant less developed country as in LDC - jargon, i know, sorry - rather than countries with developed economies eg UK, FRance etc etc).

[Paul Tallet]

Developing health and other resources is clearly a need ... but it has to be funded ... from where?

Consequently tax revenues need to be generated unless some charitable organisation is prepared to put Tobago at the top of the list (unlikely).

Tax revenues cannot be generated without a strong economy ... and yes I know that Trinidad is the main beneficiary although in fairness it is also the main generator of such revenues.

Tobago is simply trying to work to it's strengths and that happens to be tourism ...

... a variety of other historical empires have built and rebuilt industries (sugar and cocoa) and now left after a combination of themselves and natural disasters have sapped the island of the resources they need.

If there is too much investment from outside Tobago then you will see where the profits (and tax revenues) go.

So how about some regulation ... by all means invite overseas investment, but it needs to be regulated ... then you might get somewhere.

Regards

[Maria]

let's hope significant external funding for regeneration will come from the World Bank or UN-related bodies. Know that this kind of help can go awry (look at the oil for food programme in Iraq) but usually controls are pretty tight and there are many examples of external funding helping to kick start developing economies. It's really helped to tackle the HIV/AIDS problem in Uganda, for example, and this has a knock-on effect on the rest of the economy there.

[T Heie]

Well, I will imagine this will be one of the more interesting aspects of our first trip to Tobago next month, to see how well we can fend off unwanted offers of aloe vera and bracelets while relaxing on the beach.
Sort of looking forward to our first "firm No!" encounter.
Hope I don't overact and get a punch in the eye.

Three weeks to go!