saftey

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Johan Seekles

saftey

Post by Johan Seekles »

Hi there,

I am going to tobago for five weeks in august 2009,i realy would like to visit all of the beaches as mentioned on this site.(with my family)
But due to saftey advice on this site they menion not to go to deserted beaches, on the other hand a lot of the beaches described on this site are often empty....correct me if i am wrong.

So what should i do drive on to another beach where are some people??

Or could somebody advice me what beaches not to go to if deserted from their experince.

Best regards and thanks in advance for your time to answer my questions :lol:
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Steve Wooler
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Re: saftey

Post by Steve Wooler »

Hi Johan

Welcome aboard. :D

Yes, this is a catch-22 situation and one for which there is no easy answer. I guess there is a difference between 'quiet' beaches and 'isolated' beaches. The beaches to avoid are the most remote ones, particularly when they are backed by mangroves and/or scrubland where thieves can hide easily. Where incidents have been known to happen, we do put warnings in the beaches section. The ones to be particularly careful about are Buccoo (away from the village), Back Bay, King Peter's Bay and King's Bay.
Steve Wooler
myTobago.info - the definitive Visitor Guide to Tobago
Johan Seekles

Re: saftey

Post by Johan Seekles »

Steve,

Thanks for the quick reply =D>

So the things that happen is that they steel a few dollars, or is there also often rude violence when they steel.

Ofcourse i now that always a very bad thing can happen........like in holland.But i talk about the average thing.

Let me put teh question like this , Steve would you go to a deserted beach in tobago with your family? like pirates bay or englischment bay?

Best regards johan
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Steve Wooler
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Re: saftey

Post by Steve Wooler »

Hi Johan

Most times, people on deserted beaches go for a swim and come back to find that things they left on the beach - money in their pockets, etc - have gone missing. The thieves simply wait in the mangrove/scrubland until the people go swimming and then steal bits and pieces. In recent years there has been an increase in aggressive face-to-face demands for money. None of this is an "average thing".

In answer to your question: YES - I visit Pirates Bay on EVERY visit to Tobago. Englishman's Bay is quiet but sadly far from 'deserted'. I do not visit it simply because I get so angry over the way it has been ruined by the noisy generator from an illegal cafe run by a family that are allegedly responsible for the vast majority of crime along the Caribbean coast.
Steve Wooler
myTobago.info - the definitive Visitor Guide to Tobago
Johan Seekles

Re: saftey

Post by Johan Seekles »

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the reply

So pirates bay i will go for sure, it looks amazing on the pictures on your site.

I have to say that this site is very good and it has helped me a lot allready, it's full of usefull information.

i have googled a lot for a good site and this one is the best.

Thanks again and have a nice week.

greetings johan
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Oracle
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Re: saftey

Post by Oracle »

If you want to visit secluded places I would ask a trustworthy local to take you. How do you figure out who is trustworthy? Ask a village elder or a local business owner - they'll give you the advise you need.

There are so many beautiful beaches that people can't walk to that make for wonderful family picnics and beach days. Some need to be visited by boat. Locals will take you for a small fee.

Be smart but don't let fear ruin a good time.
Hardly a Tobago "Rookie"!
Johan Seekles

Re: saftey

Post by Johan Seekles »

Oracle thanks for yuour advice,

It is not fear that i have but it is good to prepare yourself if you dont know the island.
I think that tobago is very safe if you compare it with for example Curacao .
But i know that somethimes some beaches or places are more dangerous then other places and this is what i will try to find out

greetings johan
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Oracle
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Re: saftey

Post by Oracle »

Not only is Tobago safer - most of the beaches are free!

My nephew was just Baptized in Curacao and we couldn't find a free beach to relax on! :lol: :lol:

Enjoy Man!
Hardly a Tobago "Rookie"!
Johan Seekles

Re: saftey

Post by Johan Seekles »

The most nice beaches in curacao are for free only you have to go to the west of curacao,if you stay arround mambo beach etc etc you have to bring some cash.
I was there for half a year did a lot of dive experience, i have heard that tobago is a much better divng place , so cant wait to see the oceon over there :lol:

lets hope the food in tobago is as good in curucao then nothing can spoil the holiday anymore.

greetings johan
Caribstu

Re: saftey

Post by Caribstu »

It recently came to my attention, through emails from previous clients, friends and facebook that an article has been published on a website and then in turn been picked up by other websites concerning the increased crime in Tobago and stating that Tobago is the most dangerous place in the Caribbean. This is a false, factually inaccurate article which originated on the CDNN website. CDNN you will find have a history of getting into trouble legally, they have been booted off servers for breaking rules, and still they persist with this so called journalism. The website has a "forum" which will not "publish" any comments that do not suit their agenda or any opposing view points. I think that tells readers a lot doesn't it.

My attention was originally directed to it by a previous client who informed me of an article titled "TOBAGO diving accident kills tourist"There was an article published titles "TOBAGO dive accident kills tourist" the article was very misleading as the facts were that a snorkeller, who was in poor health and had pre-existing medical problems died of a heart attack whilst snorkelling and his body was picked up by a dive boat. I At that time, unaware of CDNN's reputation i posted a comment on thier forum to the effect that it was a misleading article and should be corrected, obviously the forum comment i made was not published. The webmaster, who i do not know nor had any previous communication with, emailed me days later to ask if i could confirm the info, when i gave him the truth surrounding the circumstances, (my email was c.c'd to the dive operator involved) he said i was lying and trying to cover up, he then accused me of trying to gain unfair competitive advantage as i had named the dive company, which i had not, and as mentioned my email was c.c'd to them. From one email i received it was blatantly obvious the webmaster knew the person was not diving on scuba and was indeed snorkelling and i said he should correct the information and give the readers the opportunity to make their own assessment given the real information, but CDNN refused to correct the information saying that snorkelling and diving are the same thing, though not giving the readers the right to decide of course. I then got a series of insulting emails, questioning my integrity, honesty and professionalism so began to just delete them without reading them, and simply did not respond. The last one i received was pages and pages long of utter psychotic nonsense. I could not even begin to read it as it was clearly the workings of someone who is deeply troubled. Then shortly after the first article appeared, this new article appeared. Clearly CDNN is on a mission to try and destroy Tobago for whatever reason, maybe they are being paid by someone on another island with an interest in harming tourism in Tobago or maybe they just decided to pick on us, who really knows how the mind of an unbalanced individual works.

what i can tell you is that the data in this new article is wrong, the figures are misleading, the statistics and crime stories relate to Trinidad NOT Tobago which although they are one country are totally different islands, politically, geographically and socially and as i said in an email to an inquiring tourist, it's like reading crime figures for Miami and saying well i wont go to Key West. One Tobago story they did pick up on was concerning the Swedish couple and states they were tourists killed in their hotel, they were not, they were residents and in thier own private home. This is still tragic of course and regretful but it is factually inaccurate and as different as saying a tourist was killed in Palm Beach when it was a gang killing in Miami's Little Haiti. Its webmasters like this who hide behind the internet, act with impunity it makes them feel powerful but they are very sad little people with nothing lives. The CDNN website is proof that the Internet is beyond out of control with no way of controlling it when a webmaster can have a vehicle to deliver this trash, steal people livelihoods and spread heartless lies. The issues are endless with this type of so-called Internet News site, its not the fact that many of us are aware of what is happening here. Consider the fact that many people/divers don't know these victims therefore believe it to be the truth, remember we are dealing with a worldwide audience and things quickly become email chain letters. The fact this site has to create a false impression and misleading trail to who is behind it and does not have an "open" forum proves the point that they are bias, misleading and concerned of being caught and held accountable for these actions.

I personally think that it is a great idea to have a genuine scuba related website which awards the safe and professional and exposes the dangerous and irresponsible, and the majority in our profession would agree. I have a personal contact in the Trinidad & Tobago bureau of standards and have worked closely with them over the last four years in terms of recommending standards for recreation scuba diving and implementing, which are not always to the best interest of the dive operator but are for the best interest of the client, and there are many in the dive industry both here in Tobago and elsewhere who work very hard to keep standards high. If the CDNN was a reputable source of information and presented the truth in a way readers could make fair judgments then it would be warmly received and they wouldn't have to play the game of hide & seek with who they actually are. The people that are behind this know what they are doing is wrong. But they are behind the scenes making up whatever trash they want to rant about, the next morning the world has the story and believes it.

Tobago like anywhere else in the world is not exempt from crime. It is not however anywhere near as bad as what is written around the internet or issued by various countries Travel Advisories or published in this article by CDNN. This is mostly due to the fact that the crime statistics are compiled for both Trinidad and Tobago. This may seem understandable to the uninitiated as Trinidad & Tobago is one country BUT they are two entirely different islands both socially and geographically. Trinidad is the larger of the two and is a developed commercial oil producing island, often referred to as “New York of the Caribbean”, with gun crime, drug and gang related murders and kidnapping. Tobago is the smaller peaceful twin sister island where it is generally a safe and peaceful holiday destination. The problem is that statisticians, media, travel advisories and webmasters like CDNN seem either unwilling or unable to distinguish the difference between the two islands. That’s not to say there are no problems for tourists as from time to time there are, like anywhere else in the world, but for the most part it’s a safe place to visit. In perspective there are on average 800,000 people reported missing presumed dead in the USA per year, which equates to half the entire population of Trinidad & Tobago yet despite Miami having one of the highest murder rates it the US, Florida is still the number one destination for Brits to travel to abroad. The reality is that the statistical crime levels are mostly gang related and confined to pockets on the island of Trinidad and what crime there is in Tobago itself tends to be restricted to very small pockets such as secluded beaches or private villas condensed within a small area in the south of the island. Serious crimes in Tobago are extremely rare. It is the world we live in today where crimes are committed all over the world against tourists and often you find that they could have been avoided if the tourists exercised caution or were more vigilant. Visitors should understand that Tobago is like anywhere else in the world, and in many cases better and safer than for example in Bonaire, Curacao and Aruba where you are told by car rental companies NOT to lock your vehicle and not to leave anything in it so to avoid locals breaking the windows to get inside. You would not leave your wallet or handbag on the front seat of you car in London so why do it in Tobago? Visitors can come and relax but you do need to be vigilant and avoid putting yourself in potentially harmful situations or putting temptation before others. Don’t make yourself a target.

Perhaps by writing this article, if it is picked up by CDNN i may have made myself a target for further abuse or even a smeer campaign, i like to think that there are sufficiently intelligent people in this world to realise that if you read 100 excellent reports on a variety of website forums and then a whole load of bad ones on one site, then maybe something is up with that site and the webmaster might have enough brains to realise all they would end up doing is ruining their own credibility, if they have any. But i shall take my chances as i believe Tobago is far more deserving of a good reputation than CDNN would like you to believe, she's not perfect, but she's not at all bad either, read the forum posts on here, and make educated informed decisions, and enjoy your holiday in Tobago.

On a finishing note, here is an email sent to my by a previous Canadian client;


Stu,
Have a look at this link. Looks like the guy must be a nutbar.
Peter


http://www.deepimage.co.uk/cdnn.htm
http://www.divepoll.com/manthiri.html
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Steve Wooler
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Re: saftey

Post by Steve Wooler »

Well said Stu. There is little I can add to your comments except to say that I totally condemn any webmaster who refuses to publish a balanced view on matters, regardless of his/her personal feelings on the subject.
Steve Wooler
myTobago.info - the definitive Visitor Guide to Tobago
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