Violent Tobago

[I.Sothcott]

Does Paul Tallet have some business interests in Tobago? Why else does he defend the indefensible?

Tobago is a violent place, in T&T (of whioch Tobago is a part) there are 55 muders to each 100,000 of popluation per year. T&T is one of teh ten most dangerous places in the world! In the UK, which paul Tallet would have me believe is just as bad, there are just 2 murders per 100,00 of population per year. Do the maths. It does not matter that most are locals, tell me Paul, is a dead black Trinidadian less important than a dead white Englishman, I would think not? No, sadly, Tobago is not a nice place.

Ignorant restaurant staff, dirty restaurants, dangerous beaches, surly shop assistants, crude individuals walking round commenting on women, gunmen robbing young girls, many sexual attacks. Yes Paul, it could happen anywhere, but it happens with alarming regularity in Tobago.

I intend to start a website dedicated to exposing the dangers of visiting Tobago, to give a balanced view of the island. It will list all of teh murders, rapes, sexual assaults and violent robberies on the island. I am afraid that the statement on this website that there are "absolutely no no-go areas on Tobago" led me to believe that we were safe there and that led me into a situation where a (imitation) firearm was pointed at my family.

By the way, I have also lived in Cyprus, Singapore, Dallas, Houston, Aberdeen, Holland and Norway and only in Tobago have I or my family been threatened or robbed.

Simply put, if you care for your family do not take them to Tobago.

[Paul Tallet]

Hi I Sothcott

I have no business interests in Tobago ... I only like the place so please don't get personal with me ... I am happy to debate any issue and I will be happy to have a rational discussion with you and anyone about the safety of Tobago ... so please do not imply that I have any vested interests ... that's getting a bit cheap

I don't need to quote or listen to statistics, as Ronald rightly says there are stats, facts and then some intuition ... and at the end of the day it is about how you feel as an individual ... your view has been loud and clear and people are listening to you ... what more do you want?

I don't think that a campaign of negativity about Tobago is going to be helpful to your cause, Tobago's cause or anyone's cause. Positive solutions should be discussed instead of continual condemnation.

But you have already been able to express your views on this Forum ... no one has censored you and others have said their piece too ... and we all have sympathy for the unacceptable experience you endured ... so who is saying that this Forum is biased?

I wish you every success with your website listing all the murders, rapes, stabbings, robberies, kidnappings and various general nasty things that happen in Tobago and I look forward to my invitation to share in the 'balanced views' and provide my contributions.

All the best

Regards

[Fred Feldmann]

The best of luck with your new website about Tobago Mr. Sothcott. In my opinion it would be the nicest favor a man with your experience could do for the island. You can't change the past but perhaps you can help to make a difference by broadcasting the truth. In MY experience real change only comes about when certain folks start to feel the heat of their feet being held to the fire.

[Ronald]

This did really go on..but this is my last comment..I promise

Mr I.Sothcott, you did write to Paul " Tobago is a violent place, in T&T (of which Tobago is a part) there are 55 muders to each 100,000 of popluation per year." I haven´t new statics, but in Trinidad it use to be about 1,2 murders per day, but the absolutely majority is between the gangmembers who fighting each other, harldy on other are affected.
Sorry, but your statistics is Trinidad & Tobago as a whole, if you would take away Trinidad, than it would look a lot more different.

Mr I.Sothcott also write to Paul " Do the maths", yep mister, do the math when you look to statistics. When you take these figures and say "Tobago is a violent place", than it´s like comparing an apple and a cherry, telling all "its all the same". Yes, both are fruits, they are round but they are for sure not the same.

Trinidad & Tobago is a Republic, but these two islands should be seen as two different countries, from a visitors viewpont, when looking at the statistics of crime, murder, travelling, common safety or what ever. Even the peoples are different, both locals and foreign peoples who are living/working there.

And to say you have been lived into many countries, but that´s places in USA, Europe and Singapore, not W.I. A new visitor in the Westindies into any Island, locals peoples can very easy see who are new in the area, believe me, and these visitors often attract many un-wanted locals small-criminals.

"Ignorant restaurant staff, dirty restaurants", yep they exist but also very nice places and nice staff.
"dangerous beaches", only deserted beaches, a new visitor simply must not go wherever he/she want, simply because he/she doesn´t know the country and the "local laws"
"surly shop assistants" yep they also exist, but also very nice ones even if they sometimes are "a little bit" slow
"crude individuals walking round commenting on women" mostly just empty words and that kind of comments can be heard in Europe too
"gunmen robbing young girls" that can be a common fact in Trinidad and sometimes in Scarborough, but it´s not common in Tobago
"many sexual attacks" not to visitors on major beaches, but on deserted beaches and into som discos, because many femals doesn´t understand the different between a "local macho-man" in W.I. and men in common in Europe

A Very Simply but Importan Fact, when abroad, one can not go on in the same way he/she use to do at home.

[Andy K]

Mr. Sothcott,

may i raise a question. How many tourists get robbed, assaulted, raped etc. every year in LONDON, England ?
I assume, a good lot. Would you consequently warn the world, not to visit London, because it is a violent place ?
I guess not, you wouldn't bother to even mention it or possibly find some excuse like "you can't compare London
to Tobago" etc.

I do understand your state of mind after the experience you and your family made.
Yet i find it unfair to an extend, to condemn Tobago as a whole, i guess you would have even wanted to use a word beginning with "F" and one with "N".

You have also proven your lack of judgement by taking Trinidad crime statistics as a reason to warn people from tavelling to Tobago. This is not helping anybody, not the situation, probably just your rage.

I sincerely hope that you and your family will find a totally safe place for your next vacation.
I guess places like Dubai, Singapore and probably Brunei could fall in this category, they may be beyond the budget though.

[Andy K]

Somewhere in Trinidad, a father and his 10-year-old son are talking.


Father: “Son, what do you think you want to do for a living, when you grow up ?”

Son (proud): “Daddy, I want to become an organized criminal !”

Father: “Government Service or private sector ?”

[Sharon Keeler]

Andy, that's too funny!

I do have to agree with those who say you need to separate Trinidad from Tobago if you are going to make any kind of useful argument about violent crime. Putting them together because they are one country is like comparing New Orleans with Portsmouth, NH in the USA (two places I love). From both a resident and visitor perspective, they couldn't be more different in terms of potential issues with safety.

[Bob White]

I have been watching this thread with interest.... and like Paul have no business interests in Tobago. There are many dangerous places in the world but even in my quiet neck of the woods I would take certain security precautions. I believe even amongst those who love Tobago and developed good friendships over the years with many locals.... we acknowledge the problems... but they are not unique to the island. I suggest you all read about the recent sad event at Victoria Station, London.... a schoolboy attacked and repeatedly stabbed and murdered in full view of the public. Safety is certainly something we cannot guarantee anywhere on this planet.

[Fred Feldmann]

Hi Bob. No one is saying that violence is unique to Tobago, the point is that it is proportionately over represented on the island in comparison with most of the rest of the world and that yearly statistics suggest it is getting worse. The question is what to do about it.

[Steve Wooler]

Mr Southcott is understandably angry and there is absolutely no defence for situations like this. It shouldn’t have happened and thank heavens that the perpetrator was caught and dealt with both quickly and heavily.

Despite that, and with all due respect and sympathy to Mr Southcott and his party, I must defend his allegations against this website.

A search of the site revealed two pages that contained reference to there being no ‘no-go’ areas on Tobago. These statements were made in the most general way, within the context of driving around the island. Having just spent nearly eight weeks doing just that, I would still repeat the claim. However, seeing that some people can take this out of context, I have slightly amended these statements. All advice is subject to people acting sensibly and using common sense. I guess it like recommending scuba diving, but forgetting to warn divers not to go prodding moray eels. Or, recommending hiring a car but not warning that driving a car can be dangerous. Are we also at fault for not issuing a specific warning against carrying valuables in a handbag with an address label telling the world where you are staying?

Our listing for Back Bay (Mt.Irvine) clearly states “due to the isolated nature of the beach, its best to go in a group.” The warning was originally much stronger, but as I had not heard any reports of incidents at the beach for a few years, I softened the warning to the above, last September. I have now added a further warning.

Can I draw reader’s attention to this very large sign prominently displayed at the entrance to Back Bay, where the incident took place.

I do get somewhat frustrated when people blame others for their predicament, selectively citing the most general comments and ignoring the specific advice for specific known problem areas.

With regard to statistics, can I just say that whilst the resident population of Tobago may only be 55,000, this figure takes no account of the additional 50,000-100,000 foreign visitors per year and double or treble that number of Trinidadian holidaymakers. Even a shift of 10,000 head of population can totally distort statistics at these low levels.

I wish Mr Southcott well with his website – but would suggest that he avoids use of the word ‘balanced’ when describing it. And please don’t tar everyone on Tobago with the same brush (have you any idea how hurt and upset Charmaine was to learn of your comments, given your party’s endearments on leaving? Please don’t slag off every islander because of the actions of one Trini).

I have been staying in the Back Bay area for the past 3 weeks. I was Mr Southcott’s neighbour for part of his stay (although we didn’t meet). The Police Office who dealt with his case is also dealing with my current ‘situation’ in Plymouth (See Plymouth – A Warning To Visitors ). I have spoken to more than eight people who met and dealt with members of the Southcott party in the week and a half following the incident. As a result, I confess to considerable puzzlement by Mr Southcott’s vitriolic attack of Tobago as it appears to paint a somewhat different picture to the feelings allegedly expressed by members of his party before they left.

Yes, the incident was inexcusable, and must have been extremely frightening. However, indications were that the party had largely put the matter largely behind them and made the most of their remaining nine days or so on Tobago. It is alleged that younger members of the party enthusiastically stated that they would return to Tobago, in contradiction with the opening paragraph of Mr Southcott’s first post. If Tobago is as bad as he says, why did they not leave immediately? The laughter and sounds I heard from their pool on two separate occasions certainly didn’t give the impression of a family traumatised by a serious incident; a fact that does tend to endorse the testimony of those I spoke to. So, I am perplexed by such a vitriolic attack after returning home.

Let me be absolutely clear. This incident DID occur and I am not in any way trying to diminish the seriousness of it. Whilst Mr Southcott has understandably played down his party’s culpability, the fact it that no matter how daft a tourist is, these things should NOT happen. Let’s just be grateful that this piece of vermin, Anderson Murray, has been taken off the streets for a few years.

Mr Southcott has been allowed to have his say and I have allowed the topic to run, without comment or censorship while conducting investigations. I was aware of incident within 24 hours of it occurring. Believe you me, Mr Southcott, EVERYBODY was talking about it and you had everyone’s sympathy – and considerable respect for the stoic way in which most members of your party appeared to be dealing with it.

Whilst I sympathise with your anger, I cannot allow you to launch personal attacks on members of the forum who simply question the facts of the matter. I can assure you that Paul Tallet has NO commercial association with Tobago. However, like many of our contributors, he does have enough knowledge and experience of the island to know that all too often there is another side to many of these stories and so he has every right to probe and question what occurred. You would be amazed how many incidents happen because visitors have fallen under Tobago’s spell and relax to the degree that they leave common sense behind. Ring any bells Mr Southcott? Or, is just easier to blame others rather than face the fact that YOU decided to ignore the warnings and go to an isolated beach and put your daughter in a position where someone could point an imitation gun at her?

Everyone has had the opportunity to express their views and I have let this topic run for a week to minimise accusations that I am attempting to suppress details of this incident. However, I will not allow this forum to be used for rants or misguided personal crusades and I take exception to personal attacks on the integrity of valued members of our little community. I am therefore applying my editorial rights to have the last word and will then close the topic to prevent tit-for-tat arguments. Frankly, I just want to enjoy the last five days of a wonderful two month visit to Tobago without wasting time checking the forum to ensure that a balanced, truthful and honest picture of Tobago is being presented to the world.