Excel Economy - better legroom than Virgin/BA

[S Mitchell]

Hi everyone, been reading this forum for a few weeks now, and recently came across some info I'm sure you'll be interested in! My friend works for Excel Airways and told me some really good news the other day.

From November, to celebrate the first anniversary of their Caribbean flights, Excel will be taking delivery of a new 767-300 which will replace the existing aircraft on routes to the Caribbean. The old 767 will then be used for Excel's new routes to India while the new one will fly to Tobago, Grenada, St Kitts, Antigua, St Lucia, Margarita, Puerta Plata and Barbados. The new aircraft will have fewer seats in ecomony, meaning the legroom will be better. A total of 15 seats will be removed from the new 767, leaving a minimum seat pitch of 32-33 inches. This is better than the 31 inches offered by BA and Virgin!

Excel and Golden Caribbean are hoping this will increase the popularity of Excel's flights, as apparently customers have complained that the only major negative aspect of Excel's service is the legroom in Economy. Excel One and Premium cabins have also proved highly popular. All in all, customers have been much happier with the Excel flights than they were with previous operator Monarch.

Anyway, just thought I'd share that little snippet of news! Looks like flying to Tobago in Economy is about to get a little more comfortable!

Si

[Steve Wooler]

Hi Si

Welcome aboard!

That is indeed good news. Yes, as shown on our Air Travel article, current economy seating in Excel is a mixture of 30" and 31", compared to BA/Virgins 31". Trouble is, if they go for 32-33", they will probably hamper sales of tickets in Premium Economy, which currently has a 34" pitch. Let's just hope that reducing the total number of seats will not have an impact on prices.

[Emma Hetherington]

Sounds good but have just tried the Excel website and it doesn't indicate that they fly to Tobago - any ideas how I can find out costs?

Thanks
Emma

[Steve Wooler]

Hi Emma

If you read the article mentioned above, you will see that the Excel flight is a charter flight - not part of Excel's normal scheduled services - operated by Golden Caribbean. Full contact details are given in the article.

[Golden Caribbean]

Not sure who it was at Excel Airways who gave out the information about the improved legroom in Economy Class on the 767 to the Caribbean, but as the Charterer of the flight to Grenada, Tobago and St Kitts we were holding back this information until we could provide full details, including the date it will commence. To put the record straight it will be a newer aircraft, not a NEW one.
Also, not sure people should be quoting our hopes on our behalf, or indeed what customers have complained about. Again, to set the record straight, our customers are happy with the Excel Airways flights, but were also happy with our previous operator, Monarch Airlines. However, at that time, Monarch could not provide us with an aircraft with a business type cabin.

[S Mitchell]

Hi

I'm sorry, I really had no intention of stepping on anyone's toes or causing controversy... I just came across this information through a friend who I'm sure had no intention of upsetting anyone either, and thought it would be of interest. I did not realise this was not public knowledge, especially as details of the expanded legroom is on Excel's website. Once again, sorry. No offence or bad feeling was intended in any way...

Si

[Terence H]

I found your information to be very interesting Si.
Thanks for sharing it.


Methinks Golden Caribbean are being a bit precious.

[Jacqui]

Have to agree there especially as I was one of the customers who complained recently about the leg room in Economy on Excel. I refuse to travel in economy anymore because it is just too uncomfortable for that length of journey.

In saying all that, JMC provided any excellent service when they stood in for Monarch with TV panels in all chair backs through economy and premium - this should be a must for all long haul flights.

Excel one is definitely worth the extra charge.

[C Green]

Our daughter flew Monarch to join us in Grenada a couple of years ago and she said there were numerous people unhappy with the legroom, but most particularly with the width of seat in Economy, and we have also had experience of the width problem in the premier cabin, again in times past, but I have no reason to believe they have changed the seating since then. I don't think Golden Caribbean should use a blanket statement about customers having been happy with Monarch. Not everyone bothers to write and complain. They just vote with their feet, so percentages of received complaints are pretty meaningless. Let's hope that Excel continues to provide a better service all round. Does anyone know how reliable the flights are in taking off on time?

[Steve Wooler]

I have no idea about Excel's schedule reliability, but can confidently say that people are voting with their feet in a BIG way. Within the next two months it will be extremely difficult to get seats out to Tobago with Excel for this coming winter.

Yes, the pitch in Economy is reduced - but, with respect, what do you expect for nearly half the price of other carriers? Constructive criticism is well and good, but would it not be fairer to at least compare things on a level playing field? If you want to make a direct comparison between the Excel flight and BA/Virgin/BWIA then may I suggest that you compare Excel Premium Economy with the standard economy of the others carriers, because that's a much fairer comparison, price for price.

[C Green]

Yes, I take your point Steve. I was talking historically, but cannot forget the width problem. The charter airlines generally are not good at recognising wider hips in women and in middle age in both sexes! However, I am delighted that Excel are doing so well. A level playing field makes me admit to flying schedule to get away from these problems so I am already paying for greater comfort.

[Steve Wooler]

I can only speak from personal experience and the few reports I've heard, but these lead me to believe that flight reliability with Excel is not a problem in the slightest.

It isn't a question of "forgetting" the width problem - you get what you pay for. The charter airlines are the first to admit that they offer reduced comfort for massively reduced cost. Upgrade and pay the same as you would pay for BA Economy and you get an awful lot more for your money. You pays your money and takes your choice.

Being past middle age I understand the problems only too well. However, I actually walked off a BA flight to Jamaica many years ago, when the aircraft stopped in Bermuda, refusing to fly any further with them. I subsequently suffered their atrocious service and high-handed arrogant manner far too often making transatlantic flights every three weeks while running my businesses in America and Canada. You won't get me flying with them again, regardless of cost - and certainly not when I have a choice of other carriers.

Sorry if I'm harping on a bit. This isn't about Excel particularly. It's just that these sort of comments are tough on people who would never be able to afford a holiday on Tobago if it wasn't for cheap flights like Monarch/Excel. If people want extra space - then pay for it. Please don't take it for granted and please dont make others feel like cheapskates.

[Piia]

We flew on BA and got upgraded both ways to world traveller plus. Both my partner and I are tall so we had a good reason to ask for an upgrade and it also helped that we are members of BA executive club. Actually we asked for exit seats, but the plus seats were a lot better. We had so much leg room we couldn't believe it and seats were really comfortable. We were also very pleased with the service and the meals so we'll definitely use BA again. Can someone tell me, how much the price difference is between world traveller and world traveller plus to Tobago? I don't seem to find this information anywhere.

[Steve Wooler]

Morning 'C'

Sorry if I was a little hard on you, "C". I know from our email correspondence that you are upset and I do apologise for that. My comments were intended to be general, rather than specifically at your own post. Please just remember that criticism can and does have a direct impact on the business concerned, so I simply ask that posters be fair.

In no way am I criticising anybody’s right to fly with whatever carrier or in whatever class of accommodation they wish. Good luck to you! However, please at least acknowledge that it is unfair to directly compare Excel’s economy seating with that of others costing twice as much. You wouldn’t compare the basic rooms in XYZ Guesthouse with standard rooms at the Coco Reef, surely?

Anyway, your post and Piia’s response prompted me to do some research this morning. I used the online booking systems to check each of the four airlines flying from the UK to Tobago, with a dummy two week booking for mid-January next. Now, I know that you can get better deals as part of package holidays, etc., but if I wanted to book my tickets today, on a flight-only basis, these are the prices I would have to pay:


BA
Economy (World Traveller) - 31" seat pitch - £669
Premium (World Traveller Plus) - 38" seat pitch - £1,089
Business (Club) - 50" seat pitch - £1,489

BWIA
Economy - 34" seat pitch - £586
Business - 50" seat pitch - £1,489


Excel
Economy - 30/31" seat pitch - £326
Premium - 34" seat pitch - £551
Excel One - 45" seat pitch - £777


Virgin
Economy - 31" seat pitch - £664
Premium - 38" seat pitch - £1,134
Upper Class - 55" seat pitch - £1,484

So, Excel economy - which provides around one inch less seat room - is half the cost of BA/Virgin. Excel's Premium Economy provides around 3 inches MORE legroom and is still £100 cheaper. OK, so the Excel service is poor on inflight entertainment, but I reckon the £100 difference more than covers that disadvantage and you still end up with a lot more room than on BA/Virgin standard economy.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.