Security

Graham · Post by **Graham** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:22 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 04 March 2003

Like a lot of people who are planning a trip to Trinibago (!) the last thing I want be concerned about is the safety of my partner and to a lesser extent my own personal safety. I read a posting on the Lonely planet website about a group pf girls being violently attacked and the local Police being less than helpful and certainly gives me cause for concern as we are planning to travel independently, I certainly don't want to spend my time having to look over my shoulder and treating the locals with caution. Can anyone provide me with some unbiased information.

Glyn Kirpalani · Post by **Glyn Kirpalani** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:23 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 04 March 2003

Hi Graham, "unibased" is a hard one, but I can relay my own experiences and those of my petite blonde wife - we have visited both islands about ten times since 1999, and are moving to Tobago to live soon - quitting the crime ridden filthy streets of London for a clean, safe life we hope! We have walked all around, including the lit busy areas of POS at night, and quiet beaches, given lifts to loads of locals on country roads etc and were never robbed - in POS don't drip with jewelry/wallets/camcorders, act streetwise and don't pick up single men for lifts and you will be fine. Pick beaches where there is at least one other couple, or failing that a vendor, in reasonable sight and you should be fine - common sense really. If travelling alone double the precautions, but if you do a search in this forum on some key "crime" type words you will see the numerous accounts of people saying it is safe, and a tiny minority who were the unfortunate victims of a global problem - crime. Even then, Tobago is extremely safe whilst a hige crime crackdown in POS this Carnival season has led to no reported attacks on tourists so far (ring of steel type tactics). I also know that the police take crimes against tourists VERY seriously indeed, and magistrates dish out long sentences - 5 years hard labour is the norm. Then again, I am biased! Relax and enjoy

Irene · Post by **Irene** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:24 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 04 March 2003

Graham, I don't know where this incident happened, was it in Trinadad? Port of Spain is certainly a place to avoid. Tobago however is the greatest. We have been there twice and felt safe everywhere on the island. We toured the island, walked around at night, talked to the locals and us girls even went off wandering on our own and felt totally comfortable. Having said that is there anywhere on this planet that's 100% crime free? Crime in Tobago is low though and you'll have a great time. Enjoy!

Tim W · Post by **Tim W** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:26 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 04 March 2003

Well said Glynn. Walking around Queens Park and the Botanical gadens in the evening is probably one of lifes safer experiences!

Jill Wooler · Post by **Jill Wooler** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:27 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 04 March 2003

Hi Graham

I agree with Irene, Glyn and Tim about feeling safe in Tobago. I have visited the island several times and have walked out during the day and at night with either my husband Steve, some girlfriends or completely on my own through towns, quiet villages and lonely beaches at both ends of the island and never once felt threatened. We've often approached a group of local people and asked them for directions or for help and advice and have also have given lifts. Everyone we met was exceptionally warm, friendly and helpful.

Holdens · Post by **Holdens** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:34 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 05 March 2003

I must admit that post on the lonely planet did worry me. We are planning our first trip to tobago with our children. The post did seem to suggest it was tobago and not trinidad. We chose tobago because it seemed to be relatively crime free and we prefer to mix with locals wherever we go rather than the all-inclusive option. Any reassurance or tips on making our trip as safe as possible. we were thinking of villas or appartments. Should we avoid being too remote? thanks helen

Glyn Kirpalani · Post by **Glyn Kirpalani** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:35 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 05 March 2003

Hi. I assume you read the posts from two days ago hence your title? Don't worry too much - with young children you will probably be settled into your s/c accommadation quite early (although maids will child-mind for a small fee usually). Any decent s/c villa or cottage will have secure locks and maybe an alarm, and the bigger estates such as Stonehaven, Tobago Plantations etc etc all have security guards. An isolated rural villa will be fine if you take the same precautions you would in the UK, plus, all the locals/police I have spoken to tell me that the rare burglaries are only targeted at villas when folk are out - to get t/cheques, cash, etc. Violence in burglaries is unheard of in Tobago, and the burglaries themselves are also very rare (making headlines locally when they occur), and in any event the rural communities are the safest, plus locals will look out for you and welcome you (most of them still never lock their doors at night, something I can remember at my Grans house in downtown Port of Spain Trinidad, 1974 - not any more!). You will be far safer there than here in Europe, or definitely North America, if you take standard precautions to present a low target profile. Enjoy.

Post by **Steve Wooler** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:38 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 05 March 2003

Hi Helen.

I understand your concerns but please, please do not base your impressions of Tobago (or anywhere else) on a single post on Lonely Planet - or even in this forum, for that matter. I have seen the post you referred to. I think the incident happened whilst I was on the island recently. I have to be very careful here. Let’s just say that the local gossip put a completely different complexion on the case and explained why the police took the stand they did. Read between the lines.

Crime is on the increase in Tobago. However, cases of ‘serious’ crime involving personal injury (excluding domestics) can be counted on your hand. I am hoping to get some official crime figures soon, which I hope will put the matter into perspective. Yes, petty crime and burglary are on the increase and are becoming more of a problem than used to be the case – but their figures are still tiny in comparison to what we take for granted here in the UK. It’s all relative. These things make headlines in the local press, as Glyn just said, simply because they ARE the exception.

Conscious of the fact that their future lies in tourism and that nothing will drive visitors away quicker than crime and security, the authorities have been really cracking down on crime in recent years. Being such a small island (remember, the total population is only 50,000 – about the size of a small English town), the detection rate is high – everybody knows everybody else and you can’t keep anything quiet. One problem has been toe-rags coming over from Trinidad. The local population have very strong feelings about this and believe you me, nothing gets up their nose more than Trinis coming over and causing trouble. There is a real love-hate relationship between the islands. Whilst I was there recently a local lad who had been robbing bags on beaches had been sentenced to eight (yes – 8 years) years in prison. They are really cracking down big time. Yes, they are naturally going to try and keep quiet about it – but they didn’t bargain on this site. No, credit where credit is due, they are taking crime – and crime against tourist in particular - very, very seriously indeed. Any reports that suggest otherwise are suspect in themselves.

Now, your own trip. As Glyn said, it could be argued that you are possibly SAFER in more remote areas. One of the wonderful things about Tobago is the way the locals take you to their bosom when you stay in their area. They really do look out for you. The bottom line is, choose whatever accommodation option suits your taste, preference and pocket and certainly do not base a decision upon security. As long as you obey all the sensible commonsense precautions that you would at home, you’ll be fine. Follow the advice and recommendations given throughout this forum and site and I guarantee that you will have a truly wonderful holiday.

Graham · Post by **Graham** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:39 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 05 March 2003

Glyn, What is your connection with this web site ? I ask becuase your names occurs quite often so I am assuming that you work for or administer this web site in some capacity. If that is the case then you can hardly decribe your self as being unbiased can you ?

Post by **Steve Wooler** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:40 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 05 March 2003

Graham, I know your question is posed to Glyn, but I thought I would stick my oar in. Glyn has no official connection with this site in any way or form. Like an increasing number of other people, he appears to have become addicted to the chat in this forum and is taking the trouble to answer questions - for which I am truly grateful as it eases the load on Jill and myself.

No, I guess that Glyn is not unbiased - like me he obviously loves Tobago. However, being biased in favour of Tobago does not mean that his advice and comments cannot be taken at face value, or are untrue. His comments and answers have alway struck me as fair and balanced. Yes, we Tobago-nuts are obviously keen to present Tobago in the best light - but why would we love Tobago so much if it wasn't the way we portray it? Glyn obviously believes what he is saying, because he is moving to Tobago shortly.

One final thing: Glyn actually owns a holiday rental cottage out there. Not once as he hinted at this or tried to use the forum to steer custom to it. That says an awful lot about his integrity to me.

Thanks Glyn - keep up the good work.

Glyn Kirpalani · Post by **Glyn Kirpalani** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:42 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 05 March 2003

Graham, you forgot to say "thanks for the advice"! Politeness goes a long way and does not hurt. Never mind, no harm done. In answer to your question (more of an accusation really?) that I wrongly labelled myself "unbiased", then I fear you ought to re-read my 4th March posted reply to yours, this time poring over the words a little more carefully - I start off by stating that "unbiased" is a hard one for me (should have been a clue), then close by admitting "I am biased". Steve - just read your reply, and thanks for the thanks! One day, when I own beautiful Tobago, I will give you a small piece (kidding). Regards

Graham · Post by **Graham** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:43 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 05 March 2003

Thanks for the Advice Glyn

My concern is not that you are unbiased from a personal point of view, if you profess to love T&T so much, that is wonderful. My concern is more to do with telling it like it is and not putting forward a point of view of an organisation which has much to gain from people like myself coming to T&T even if the gain is not direct. I agree that politeness costs nothing and for that you have my apologies. Many thanks.

Graham · Post by **Graham** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:45 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 05 March 2003

Steve, I understand your reason for "sticking your oar in" but you can understand how a forum like this can be manipulated to paint a very rosey picture by unscrupulous people. There is a great need for forums like this just so long as the integrity is not in question. I have found the web site to be very useful all the same. Keep up the good work. Many thanks

Steve Pitts · Post by **Steve Pitts** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:47 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 05 March 2003

Having posted a message about crime on the island and the associated concerns that this has generated, I realy would like to attempt to put the subject of personal security in perspective. You are probably safer, as a visitor to Tobago, than anywhere else you could chose for a holiday destinaion. Having travelled around a bit, my wife, daughter and friends (whom we have recommended Tobago to) have had one 'off' experience which involved the theft of a video camera. The crime involved a snatch, no violence - no threats, just an opportunist thief. After the initial shock and massive amounts of sympathy from local folk, we had a good laugh about it. When our friend returned home, he recieved a new digital camcorder from his insurance company. 'in a way, he did me a favour' was Dave's philasophical recollection of the experience. Just to reaffirm: we are headed to Tobogo for another two week holiday in April, where we stay in Lambeau, a residential district just outside of the capital, Scarborough. No security guards and no perimeter fences. We will continue to sleep with the winows open and won't worry about wandering around after dark. It all adds to the enjoyment of mixing with such wonderful people.

Please don't let my earler comments put you off going to Tobago.

steve

Glyn Kirpalani · Post by **Glyn Kirpalani** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:52 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 05 March 2003

Apologies accepted, as I said, no harm done - freedom of speech and all that. In fact we share "suspicious mind" mentalities, and in some ways you are right and wrong - yes I do gain from more visitors to Tobago as I am a dual uk/Trini national and have a holiday rental apartment and car rental company there (albeit on microscopic scale!), and shall be living there soon hoping to make a living. I shall have that need to find employment in common with the charming people of the island (the charm I will learn I hope). But as Steve says, that does not mean that I would lie (about crime for example) to lure people to the island under false pretences - I could not live with myself if anything happened to someone who I had assured of safety, hence my absolute confidence in people's safety - subject to all the usual precautions needed anywhere in the world. So confident am I in this statement that, if anyone gets into difficulties in Tobago after April 26th (or just needs a sympathetic British family to advise), they can call me there 6310266, and I wll do what I can to help! One of the reasons - as you point out - that I contribute to this site so heavily (of late), is that my UK law enforcement career break has just been authorised and most of my duties here are now covered - time on my hands is a dangerous thing perhaps? So I do have considerable knoweldge of crime etc, and an ongoing duty to the British taxpayer to be honest. PS - a metropolitan police officer recently rented out my apartment and was taken with the friendliness of the locals - and he has nothing to gain. If you or anyone else want an unbiased opinion give me an email address and I will forward you his summary of the island and all his favourite restaurants etc. Regards,

Graham · Post by **Graham** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:53 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 05 March 2003

Glyn,

Cheers, maybe I'll look you up when I come over for my holidays, perhaps a beer or two wouldn't go amiss.

Post by **Steve Wooler** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:55 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 05 March 2003

Graham, I’m sorry if your post is giving you a hard time, but the points you have raised must also cross other reader’s mind, so there’s no harm in openly discussing them here – after all, that is why it is the “Visitor’s Discussion Forum”. I must, however, take issue with your statement to Glyn where you refer to “not putting forward a point of view of an organisation which has much to gain from people like myself”. Please read the home page of myTobago.info and you will then understand how deeply hurtful that comment is. May I respectfully suggest that you check your facts before making such a statement. If you are not prepared to take the site at face value, then please do not waste the time of those who are. With reference to your comment about forums being manipulated, I am well aware of the dangers and go to great lengths to ensure that the forum presents a balanced view. Again, it would take very little effort reading this forum to establish that fact – may I refer you to M.F.Newton’s post “Seahorse Restaurant” just a few posts down the page to illustrate what I mean.

Graham · Post by **Graham** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:56 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 05 March 2003

Steve,

I considered my words very carefully before writing in and I can of course understand that you could take offence which is not my intention, however you do understand that these things can happen. I don't wish to cast doubts on you so please accept my apologies.

I did however say that I felt that your web site was very useful and judging by your reaction, you migt find this odd, but I am reassured by it. If you were dishonest I doubt you would have reacted in such a way.

Once again I apologise for any hurt caused.

Post by **Steve Wooler** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:57 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 05 March 2003

Hi Graham. Apologies accepted. Sorry to be sensitive, but this site is very personal to me and I value my integrity so highly that even the slightest suspicion tends to light the fuse. You are quite right to question. It is just a dissapointment that the general tone and quality of content of the site didn't convince you without having to put your head on the block. Ah well, you can't win them all. Anyway, enjoy the site and feel free to raise any issues that cross your mind.

Louise · Post by **Louise** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:57 pm

Post Recreated: Originally posted - 05 March 2003

Hi, I have been to Tobago twice and am about to go for the third time - taking friends this time. I have been to many other caribbean islands, and indeed many places in USA and Europe. I can honestly say that I have felt safer in Tobago than anywhere else - and that includes my home town of Brighton. Talk to the locals - ask them their views of world affairs, football (mention Dwight York and you are guaranteed a smile), cricket, how beautiful their island is - they will happily lime for hours dicussing anything under the sun if you want to! i am sure you will have a great time!