Hope Beach

Chris B · Post by **Chris B** » Mon May 07, 2007 2:32 pm

Hi once again.
I was wondering, anyone got any info about Hope Beach?
Saw photos online and the person said Hope Beach in Tobago.
Where/how do I find it?

Thanks

Paul Makin · Post by **Paul Makin** » Mon May 07, 2007 3:16 pm

do you mean Hope Bay?

if so, you need to be on the atlantic (north) coast. head through scarborough, staying on the highway. keep on past the dwight yorke stadium and the highway lookout. after the lookout is john dial village. the road switches left then right after john dial as you make a short descent to sea level. this is now hope bay.

no facilities here so take anything you might need along with you.

regards
paul

Clyde Alleyne · Post by **Clyde Alleyne** » Mon May 07, 2007 3:42 pm

Correction to Paul's comment: Hope Bay is actually on the South coast, not the North coast and is accessed via the Windward Road, which starts after the Claude Noel Highway ends. Hope Bay is mentioned in this link: http://www.mytobago.info/beaches05.php
Here's what it says:
"Hope Bay (Hillsborough Bay)
Hope Bay is readily recognisable due to the lines of waves breaking into surf as the sea rushes in over the shallow waters. The beach is a very long stretch of black volcanic sand and the invariably deserted. There are strong rip tides out to sea, so the bay is not considered safe for swimming, but it does make an excellent walking beach."
Clyde

Chris B · Post by **Chris B** » Mon May 07, 2007 4:17 pm

thanks for your replies.
here is a link to the photo i was talking about.
have any of you all seen this place?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/antiguan/486515248/

regards
Chris

David Watkins · Post by **David Watkins** » Mon May 07, 2007 5:26 pm

That is definitely not Hillsbrough(Hope) Bay,perhaps they have become mixed up between the Island of Tobago and Tobago on an adjacent island.
David

Chris B · Post by **Chris B** » Mon May 07, 2007 5:35 pm

Well I asked the guy how to find it.
Hopefully he will reply.
Do you know of any spots in Tobago that looks remotely like that?
I mentioned Back Bay because it reminds me of a photo I saw of that place once...
Actually I just check the picture of Back Bay again that I had gotten off this website, and compared to the Flickr pic.
I think it's really Back Bay.

What do you guys think?

Collins K · Post by **Collins K** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:00 pm

Yup, Back Bay for sure...

Jill M · Post by **Jill M** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:09 pm

Yep, looks the same to me.

http://www.mytobago.info/photos/aerial/IMG_4580.htm

David Watkins · Post by **David Watkins** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:50 pm

Nope I don't think so,the rock in the back has shrubs/trees growing on it.
Also,unless the photo is reversed the sea is on the wrong side.
Hope I am not being to pedantic but I don't think this is Island Tobago at all.
David(couldn't find an icon for fingers crossed so X)

Post by **Steve Wooler** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:57 pm

Hi Guys

Sorry for the delay, but I've been a bit tied up.

I can confirm, it IS Back Bay (i.e. the one between Mount Irvine and Grafton - there are several Back Bays on Tobago). It is actually the southern end of the bay. I haven't got an exact photo from that perspective, but here are two shots that might convince you.

Chris B · Post by **Chris B** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:11 pm

This beach looks spectacular.
I surely have to visit it on my next trip to Tobago.
Once again, the only concern then being safety, I'd want to go by myself and not take my wife and kids (3 & 1) there... but then alone I might be even more of a target.
It really does pain me that one has to worry about personal safety on an island as beautiful as Tobago.
Why do you think a place like this isn't developed? Looking from the Aerial photo, there seems to be ample space for something.
But then again, that would just destroy the pristine magic of the place. I've seen it happen before in the Indian Ocean.

Post by **Steve Wooler** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:11 pm

Hi David

Here is an enlargement of the aerial shot that Jill pointed out. Collins is right, without shadow of doubt. The rock with the trees can be seen in the enlargement and X marks the spot where the photographer would have stood - although my shot was at higher tide so there's less sand showing. The rocky outcrop is effectively a headland between Back Back and Mount Irvine Bay and so there is sea all around it on three sides.

Post by **Steve Wooler** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:21 pm

Hi Chris

As I think I say in our Beaches article (menu: Out & About/Beaches & Bays/Lower Caribbean) Back Bay is undoubtedly one of the most beautiful bays and beaches on Tobago. Its rather exposed so the swimming conditions aren't great during the early months of the year, but I believe it is far more settled in the summer months. Because it is backed by fairly heavy foliage, there was a time when local lads would hide in the bush and grab tourist bags while they were swimming, but over recent years the authorities have thinned out the bush and its now not as easy for them to get away.

All I can tell you is that I regularly visit Back Bay - generally alone or just with Jill. I've certainly never had any trouble.

I don't know who owns the land around Back Bay. It is a huge problem buying good beachside land in Tobago. In many cases people refuse to sell because they don't want the place to change. In far more cases, it is impossible to get clear title to the land. Most land in Tobago has been handed down over many generations (since the abolition of slavery) but has no documentation. Everyone accepts that it belongs to such-and-such family, but no single member of that family has clear title. So, land can only be sold with the total consent of the entire family - and it can take many, many years to track down and secure that permission (even assuming you can get permission from everyone). It is hugely complex. For this reason, Tobago will never become over-developed.

Linda P · Post by **Linda P** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:59 pm

If it prevents Tobago from becoming over-developed long may the ambiguity over land ownership continue!

Linda
10 days to go $\:D/$

Patrick Dankou · Post by **Patrick Dankou** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:02 pm

Hello,
10 years ago I tried to find out who is the owner of this beautiful piece of land, it is also my favourite beach in Tobago. I was told it is owned by TIDCO a now defunct government company that was responsible for tourism and industrial development in Trinidad & Tobago ( what an odd portfolio ) TIDCO was not doing too much for Tobago they focused on heavy industry in Trinidad.
There was a lot of speculation going on what they would do with back bay in those days. I assume that the government still owns the place, but I do not think that they can/will do anything with it without consulting the Tobago House of Assembly. As far as I know there are no actual plans to develop the site.

Steve Pitts · Post by **Steve Pitts** » Tue May 08, 2007 6:50 am

Steve Wooler wrote:Hi David

The rock with the trees can be seen in the enlargement and X marks the spot where the photographer would have stood -

Hi Steve
I agree - Back Bay.

Far be it from me to contradict the oracle, but I think that the photo was taken from a different position to your X.
With the rock outcrop being to the right of the flickr picture and with the sea to both sides, the photo would have been taken from the sandy beach to the lower half of your picture. Probably on the right of the two rocks in the sand, looking back towards the outcrop.

Like you - we have visited back bay on numerous occasions and it is as 'Robinson Crusoe' as you could get. Not a hint of trouble, unlike some of the more popular beaches and we'll visit again this trip at least once.

Having looked at some of the other Tobago photos in the flickr set, could this be Hope? http://www.flickr.com/photos/antiguan/4 ... 185911887/

Cheers
Steve
PS Did you get my comp email and photo?

David Watkins · Post by **David Watkins** » Tue May 08, 2007 7:36 am

Okay,I surrender!The original pic is Back Bay.
Steve P has Hope Bay,the sand is darker on that stretch of coast.
David.

Post by **Steve Wooler** » Tue May 08, 2007 10:09 am

Hi Steve

Goodie, goodie - a punch up!

I could be wrong, but having studied the shots and angles, let me explain my reasoning. Its a pity I can't reproduce the Flickr shot here, but without the owner's permission that would be wrong to do. Anyway, the rocky outcrop with the trees on top is clearly the significant part of the shot. That, and the strange black rock formations are what immediately identified the beach.

Anyway, look at my top photo of the beach. The rocky outcrop can be seen on the right, just below the horizon. OK, so it doesn't look identical from that angle. However, look at the photo below. You can clearly see the rocky formation, shown in the top shot, and there's no mistaking the outline.

Now, as you can see, this rocky outcrop is long and narrow. The photo must surely have been taken at something like a 4 o'clock position, assuming the outcrop was 12 o'clock. There is no sand or beach at the 8 o'clock postion - only sea. If the photo was taken from the little sandy inlet at the bottom of my aerial photograph, you would be looking straight onto the back of the rocky outcrop - exactly where the lower of my two photos above was taken.

The following shot shows the overall layout a little better:

As regards the other shot, my guess is 75% that its Hope Bay. It is definite that its an Atlantic Coast beach, but that curve worries me with regard to Hope Bay - which is a long, long straight beach with only a minor curve at the northern end at Mount St George. The bay is so long that I don't even have a single shot that captures it all. So, here are two aerial shots taken in March. The first shows the general nature of the bay and the second shows a close up of the northern end - the only part that could be the subject of the Flickr shot. What troubles me is that Hope Bay always has the characteristic lines and lines of beautiful breakers - I've never seen the bay without them and they are showing in the Flickr shot. Secondly, the palms on the shoreline are far more dense in the Flickr shot.

(p.s. Steve - your private address is rejecting all my mail so I've been replying to your work address. Aren't you getting that?)

Chris B · Post by **Chris B** » Tue May 08, 2007 12:33 pm

My two cents...

Well at first I thought the photographer was standing where there is the X
But after studying it some more, I think he's standing below the X, on the "other side" of the headland.
From that position I think that's how he got the "pool" the people can be seen bathing in, and the rock on the top right side and the most important bit for me (in identifying the position) those rocks on the bottom right.
Hmmm, I guess one of us will just have to go and see for ourselves eh?

Post by **Steve Wooler** » Tue May 08, 2007 12:48 pm

I'm not speaking to you lot! I have now spend most of the morning poring over photos, maginifying them and studying details. Another day eating bread and cheese because I haven't earned anything!!!!!

Actually, joking aside, I think Steve P might be right. My first theory can't be correct - for some silly reason I totally missed/ignored the fact that there is clearly water around the rocks on the left of the photo. That would be impossible.

Hopefully the owner of the Flickr shot won't mind me reproducing it here, to enable readers to better judge and rather than having to flick to another site.

So, given the water on the left and the near identical profile of the rocky outcrop when compared to my shot at the top of this page, I would say that Steve P is quite correct.

Yes, maybe we ought ot have a collection to send me out and prove the matter once and for all.

p.s. Another thing that finally convinced me! In the Flickr shot, there is clearly land or an object to the immediate right of the rocky outcrop. From where I initially envisaged the photo being taken, there is no land (except possibly Trinidad on a really clear day). From Steve's suggested position, you would possibly/probably have the other end of the bay (Black Rock/Fort Bennet) in the background.

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Hope Beach

Hope Beach

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